“Ask not what your church can do, but what you can do for your church” is what JFK might have said if he had been a General Authority.
Not attending church used to carry a very high penalty: fines, ostracism, and even death. In Shakespeare’s day, it was illegal not to attend church. Nowadays, there really are no social penalties, to say nothing of financial penalties, for being irreligious other than disappointed friends or family members. [1]
Church as a Duty
Some believe that our participation at church should be a duty, what we owe to God, evidence of our humility and commitment. People with this viewpoint often ask a lot from church-goers, sometimes to the point that their requests cause people to question whether church is for them or not. While participation drives commitment, asking for more than a person is willing to invest results in attrition.
Doubtless, duty is an important part of church attendance. But we also need to have some balance. Along with what we give, we must also feel that we get something from our church participation as well: support, growth, friendship and community, and maybe even some good-natured fun. Like a marriage, we commit to it when everyone is happy and in love, but over time we encounter good days and bad, and without enough good days, why stay? So there must still be something in it for us, particularly now when the price for exiting church is so low.
A Consumer Church
In recognition that church should give as well as take, Rick Warren created the Saddleback Church, an incredibly popular megachurch in California. Worshipers can choose what kind of service they prefer: casual or more formal, rock music or choral hymns, etc. The sermons are piped in from a central location and shown on jumbotrons in the middle of each of the different types of service. Some critics call this a “Consumer Church,” one that caters to the individual desires of its members too much. What really makes the Saddleback Church successful, though, is that members are put together into smaller prayer groups in which they discuss their problems with others who are similar to them, and they pray for one another. These smaller groups of congregants are what creates loyalty and community for those in the Saddleback Church. This consumerist approach is hardly new, though.
Historically, Cathedrals in Europe were grand spectacles designed to draw in the impoverished and often illiterate masses. The gold, the statuary, the ceremony, the music–these were all highly entertaining for the day. Churches in medieval times would also enact morality plays and tableaux to demonstrate virtues and saintly behavior to promote the messages of the gospel and the church’s priorities in a way that was captivating to their audience. Creating a spectacle at church drew an audience, and drawing an audience is part of doing the work of God by spreading the gospel. They didn’t have to go this far as church attendance was mandatory, and yet they did.
Finding Balance
There are certainly some who think that fun distracts from teaching the gospel rather than making it possible by attracting people to hear the message. We start sliding into this thinking when we become too focused on rules, requests, obligations, and the expectations of members and not enough on friendships and community-building that make it a joy to participate in church.
- How well does your ward find this balance?
- Do you find it a joy to attend church?
- When does church start to feel more like a duty and less like a joy to you?
- How do we make church attractive to converts? To young people? To singles? To the rest of us?
- What’s the role of leaders in making church appealing?
Discuss.
[1] which are clearly a deterrent for some.
Wheat & Tares 
Ooh hey a full ten points for your Protestant strawman! An oldie but a goodie.
I used to live close to Saddleback church and attended regularly before returning to the LDS church. I always wanted to go, I always felt the spirit there and I always felt happy and uplifted, it’s members love it! You can call it a Consumer Church but there isn’t much there to consume except the New Testament gospel. I suppose consumer means the presentation was packaged to fit the potential member and this is true, Rick actually went door to door asking people who don’t regularly attend what would entice them to come and then he provided it. It was incredibly successfully formula, last I heard which was a few years ago the attendance at that campus exceeded 20,000 per weekend! We can look down on this but let’s remember that the tabernacle with is great pipe organ and voice audible acoustics was the mega church of it’s time and must have been quite a rare entertainment spectacle! We’ve since traded this apparently still successful formula for a correlated cardboard gospel and drudge Hymns sung in what might as well be a bank building. Saddleback breathes life to the gospel while the LDS church and it’s wards are doing their best to suffocate it.
To each his own. I enjoy our LDS meetings. I don’t need to be dazzled by entertainment pyrotechnics, bands, etc. I like our intimate settings where we know each other and strive to worship together and teach one another.
I couldn’t agree less with Howard’s assessment
I do believe that church attendance isn’t all about *ME*. But there’s a certain level where we get off balance between the principle of the church existing to support the family; and in practice it’s opposite.
As for me, it’s often difficult to find peace, solace, acceptance, and love during church experiences. I bore my testimony Sunday that church is sometimes hard for several reasons for people, but I show up because I love my Savior. That’s how I’m showing my love, I show up. And I know he knows my heart and counts it fully as an act of faith.
Sure would be nice sometimes if my hardest experiences didn’t happen at church. But I believe this is heavily location influenced as well.
I do wonder if our own services weren’t exactly that anyway – a mimic of what was popular in Protestant New England at the time, mixed with Quakerism, and other add-ins. I’m not knocking Saddleback Church here, nor Mormonism, just asking what appeals to people and how important making church appealing is. Personally, if there was a tent at the Saddleback compound that looked mostly Mormon with maybe some better music thrown in, so long as it wasn’t fast Sunday, that’s probably the one I would pick from familiarity.
I’m not exactly driven to go to church, but it’s not because there aren’t rock concerts or small prayer groups. It’s because on any given Sunday, it will probably be boring and utterly irrelevant to my life circumstances punctuated with moments of absolute offensiveness.
I think there is conceivably a value to learning how to hear offensive things without even blinking…learning how to regulate internal blood temperature, as it were…but then i realize that baffling things happen in life without seeking it out in a church.
I’m not sure where our meeting stoicism comes from but to me it is perpetuated by the flat depressed looking affect of the Q15 (less Uchdorph of course) example they set as they speak in GC, it’s all I can do to stay awake and very often I don’t. It’s such a major disconnect when someone “rejoices” in the gospel using this depressed delivery – like nails on a chalkboard! It would be quite an improvement just to experience affect that actually matched the words for a change.
You’re doing it again, Howard
What would that be Jeff?
My $.02 on the “Jeff vs. howard” exchange…
Though I tend to agree mostly with Jeff about preferring the reverent if at times dull atmosphere that is a typical LDS Sacrament (or the entire block for that matter), Howard does have a point. Not everyone with a desire to be spritually fed wants to dress up, put on the pious face, and act “holier than thou”. Certainly I’m NOT accusing my fellow Saints of hypocrisy (I’ll concern myself first about mine own hypocrises, thank you), just pointing out that at times we could stand to be loosened up a bit. I’ve found social activities outside of the 3-hour block not on the Sabbath to be a bit lighter and merrier tone most of the time.
Still, places like Saddleback, or your garden-variety MegaChurch (ex in Sac Town, Capital Christian Center) tend to promote their version of the “Gospel” with all TOO MUCH emphasis on the entertainment and “packaging” the Gospel in a fashion palatable to the unwashed. If I want to see electric guitars and pyrotechnics, I’ll wait until KISS is on tour. If I want guys in Hawaiian shirts, there’s Jimmy Buffett (Parrotheads unite, you have nothing to lose but your Oxfords!). In thirty-five years of Church membership, when I’ve gone, I’ve never left the building, even trailing Elvis, saying, “Geez, THAT was a waste of time!”
FWIW I attended Saddleback regularly for years and never encountered pyrotechnics although it might make an impressive program for the 4th of July! 🙂
A little too over the top negative
Well, I’ll certainly give you negative Jeff, that’s exactly how the LDS brand of hairshirt style stoicism hits me as it rolls out in our meetings including GC! So what exactly is so exaggerated that it puts my *characterization* over-the-top?
A characterization is a literary device that I’m deliberately using here to breakthrough the head-in-the-sand habituation of the faithful who have little else to compare to in their churching experience. If that’s all you know it probably seems normal to you. To me this depressed looking podium affect appears both dysfunctional and unconvincing. Really you’re rejoicing while depressed? Really the gospel is THIS hard? Jesus didn’t make it look this hard!
The LDS church reveres a life of implied low level underlying suffering that is quite unnecessary.
I think the atmosphere of any particular church comes down to culture and purpose. I’m definitely in the “church is duty” camp. If I were to craft my perfect church, most Mormons would hate it, and I wouldn’t want to inflict that on them. Current church culture reflects a compromise between various cultural religious traditions in America, a mix of “high church and low church” like Hawkgrrl once posted about. I don’t think I would like Saddleback any more than what we have, but if it became like that, I’d still go out of duty.
I don’t think I would like Saddleback any more than what we have… Maybe not but I can tell you that the local Mormons regularly sampled the fare at Saddleback and while some complained LDS have more doctrine (we do) or about priest-craft (totally unfounded – Rick reverse tithes, that is 90% of his book income goes to the church and his family lives on 10%) one thing they unanimously agree was that Saddleback had better music by far! So there are useful things the LDS church could lear from Saddleback if they were so inclined.
I think a lot of people have a desire to actually change lives and make a difference (relief society). Really if I felt RS could focus more on providing relief to 3rd world countries etc. instead of soothing our battered mormon mommy guilt with waffle breakfasts I would find the church meet more of my worship needs.
Providing relief to 3rd world countries etc. is not worship.
Kullervo: no doubt, although humanitarian efforts are a part of the overall church experience. My ward does a fairly good job providing lots of service opportunities, usually not just serving other church members. We have ongoing relationships with a few different charitable groups. Worship is just one aspect of the church experience. I’m not entirely sure our “worship” is as worshipful as a high service feels. We don’t really create a sense of awe or even quiet reflection to the degree I’ve seen in other churches. Our meetings (to me) seem very practical. Our talks are mostly anecdotal with realistic application. That’s definitely got appeal, but it’s a stretch to call it worship.
Well, hymns are generally worshipful.
I doubt you would or should experience awe in a worship service. maybe at the Temple, but typically in personal prayer and reflection. And while we commune together to partake of the Sacrament, it still is a personal communion. if i come expecting to be bored, then i guess I will be…. all I need is one thing to hold on to to have made it worthwhile because it can be a launchpad for my own experience. Just like no one else can make you happy, no one else can make you worshipful. And, for that matter, no one can bore you.
You do those things yourself.
I think LDS hymns are generally reflective and carry great historical and gospel importance, they are sometimes worshipful but they generally fall very short in that category compared to Christian worship music who’s eye is single unto the glory of the Lord.
#20 Jeff,
Then why attend church? Are you saying LDS services cannot be improved or are you just doing the traditional LDS twist of blaming the member for the church’s shortcomings? Sure people can prospect for 3 hours for a nugget or two if that’s what they need for a launchpad but after some practice can’t you provide your own launchpad?
Then your god is probably not worthy of worship anyway.
I’ve totally experienced awe in evensong service in the Anglican church. I’ve experienced awe in most cathedrals, as well as dust allergies and occasional revulsion (some of the statuary can be grotesque).
I like that you point out that the power of the Saddleback isn’t just its customized services but the small group structure that they do a great job implementing. In a very real sense, the small groups at Saddleback act much like our home and visiting teaching programs but with more of an opportunity to select your HTs and VTs and without the “message to share” but rather common spiritual interests and goals to pursue. It really is a very well-crafted model and in this era of shrinking church attendence (including in our own) I think we would do well to look with a little Holy Envy on what Saddleback has accomplished. How much different is preaching sermons through the big screen from our new stake conferences where the top leadership preach at us from somewhat smaller big screens? Rick Warren seems like a very sincere and honest guy that walks the walk or has so far. In some sense Jesus led a “consumer church” going where the people were, teaching them what they were ready to hear. Customizing the gospel message for different listeners. Its not like Warren doesn’t preach a demanding gospel or benefits of religious discipline.
Howard,
“Then why attend church? Are you saying LDS services cannot be improved or are you just doing the traditional LDS twist of blaming the member for the church’s shortcomings? ‘
You might actually open your scriptures to find that one. And yes, I am on the payroll specifically to blame members. I guess that’s what the Savior did as well. I guess that is where I learned it.
“Then your god is probably not worthy of worship anyway.”
what an odd and disrespectful thing to write.
Thanks for clearing that up Jeff!
Hawk,
“I’ve totally experienced awe in evensong service in the Anglican church. I’ve experienced awe in most cathedrals, ”
Well, certainly the churches themselves (architecturally and construction-wise) can be awe-inspiriting. the music, likewise. But then again so is the Mona Lisa, the Venus Demilo and many other things.
I suppose many things can be awe-inspiring, but it always comes from within oneself. that was my point.
Things like the creator of the universe?
I feel somewhat that you have equated ‘fun’ churches with consumerism, and the opposite being the stodgy churches where the masses are doing all the giving… I’m not so sure about this juxtaposition because although the LDS church does not make their services ‘fun’, or change their services so people feel they are getting more out of it, I would argue they are still consumerist in that they send out surveys and ask people how they feel on other topics within the church. One would think it would be easier for them to change services into something a little more fun and meaningful, rather than changing, for instance, the temple ceremony.
It is said that a religion provides three things for its members:
1) a theology or set of doctrines which provide a framework for life.
2) a communal worship service.
3) a sense of community.
The LDS church has some of the deepest and most inspiring doctrine to be found anywhere. It is the reason why converts (such as myself) are drawn to the church. It provides answers for the great questions. However, we tend to water down or bury our deepest and most fulfilling doctrines.
As concerns our communal “worship” service we tend to be lacking in significant ways. We do not have a “worship” service which inspires awe or allows for Adoration of the Savior in a public setting. Our service tends to stress Emulation of the Lord’s attributes through stories and anecdotes as well as reinforcing the “truthfulness” of the church as an organization. (How often do you hear “I know the church is true” instead of “I have a certainty of the restored gospel and a witness of our Savior’s Atonement”?)
Lastly, we have a strong sense of community which works well as long as one fits or conforms to the prevailing social structure. This structure tends to be straight, married, middle-class and with children (at least in the US and Canada). It is a wonderful environment in which to raise your children with positive values and a sense of purpose. However, in general, it is difficult when you do not fit into that life situation. There is little support for singles, divorced persons, gays or general misfits other than as appendages to the common family focus. It can be very discouraging and draining to try and fit into such a community.
If one does not receive any kind of nourishment or fulfillment out of the community or the communal “worship” service then the question must be asked why would one attend for three hours each Sunday? As Jeff has stated one might as well remain at home and hold a private worship service since he believes that Adoration is a private act.
KT – and yet the temple ceremony has changed many many times, several in the 25 years since I went through, and even more in my parents’ lifetimes.
Michael,
“As Jeff has stated one might as well remain at home and hold a private worship service since he believes that Adoration is a private act.”
No, Jeff did not state that nor imply it. We are taught to meet together oft and partake of the Lord’s Supper in remembrance of the great sacrifice He made for us. We are also taught to use that time to reflect and ask for forgiveness for our sins. That part is, in fact, a private act. Partaking of the Sacrament is the main purpose for our meeting on Sunday. We cannot do that in our homes.
We are also taught to teach each other the doctrines of the Church, that is the other reason we meet.
Staying at home simply does not cut it.
And giving praise and worship to God? Where does that fit into the picture, if that’s not why you meet?
Oh please. Pull the other one, Michael. Maybe subjectively inspiring to some people, but I’ll chalk that up to ignorance and a lack of theological imagination. But deepest? Never in a million years. Try Paul, Athanasius, Augustine, Aquinas, Anselm, Luther, Calvin and Edwards.
Kullervo,
Wow! A slap in the face and extremely offensive.
I left the Catholic priesthood and converted to Mormonism specifically because LDS doctrine builds upon the theology and ideas of those you mentioned in your demeaning comment.
But I assume an insult to my intelligence will be forthcoming in response.
I also respect Buddha.
“If you propose to speak, always ask yourself, is it true, is it necessary, is it kind”
Buddha
It does absolutely no such thing. In fact, I believe that’s one of the most pernicious lies of Mormonism, i.e., the idea that Mormonism is somehow “Christianity plus so much more.” surely if you were a Catholic priest you realize that Mormonism in no way builds on Aquinas. I’m flabbergasted that you would suggest it.
Also, that’s a fake Buddha quote.
Kullervo,
I wish you peace on your continuing journey to Galilee. Perhaps we will meet under a more Christian spirit and I hope to celebrate with you in Our Lord’s Kingdom.
IMO, the primary objective of having an organized church (with meetings, structure, rules, hierarchy, etc.) is to AID us in becoming more Christ-like. In all the ways that matter in the eternities, the religion/ordinance/covenant parts are irrelevant except to further that objective. That makes *church* (and to a lesser extent, the ordinances) the means, not the end. The highest and best value provided by our local ward/branch is friendship, example, and support for our personal efforts to that end. As the OP said, “…when we become too focused on rules, requests, obligations, and the expectations of members and not enough on friendships and community-building that make it a joy to participate in church.”
The majority of our practices and procedures at Sunday church meetings should further the sense and strength of the ward as a community of friends. Ways this is subverted: in sacrament meeting the bishopric member always states who is presiding at the meeting, he never reads the names/introduces the new move-ins (and my ward has about 3-4 per month), all the adult talks have to be based on some recent GC address (so there are long quote–endquote readings), and at least once a year someone gives a talk about Reverence. I even know a bishop that hustles people out of the chapel right after sacrament meeting because it violates the reverence of the room and they need to get to Sunday School. Just *some* of my pet peeves.
hawkgrrrl (34) So, it begs the question, why aren’t they changing services…..? They’ve shown they can be consumerist, so is it for the corps own personal gains they don’t change it, or the membership?
II’v eoften joked that a “NO” sign (red circle with a slash across) ought to be posted at the walkup to every LDS meetinghouse, the “NO” sign being over the work “FUN”. That is, anything that is actually enjoyable is either an “unforgiveable sin”, or will lead down the slippery slope to eternal damnation, or at least the Brethren have warned us against it.
Still, what, pray tell, do you attend Church for? Is it to be ENTERTAINED? Dear brother/sister, thou art barking up the wrong tree if entertainment is your motive! It’s hard enough to tear myself away from the boob tube on Sundays in September with the NFL going and my ‘Gints in contention. Even having the DVR going only helps so much. If it’s entertainment that I sought, got that right in front of my Barcalounger. Though after yesterday’s debacle in both baseball and football for San Francisco….
(With apologies to Ernest Thayer, author of “Casey at the Bat”)
“Yea, somewhere the birds are singing, and a child plays with a pup. But there is NO joy in Niner-Land…for Colin Kaepernick has (fouled) up!”