KSL is reporting that Elder Packer passed away at 2 pm today due to age. He was 90. With Elder Packer and Elder Perry both dying within the last month, it is likely that Elder Nelson will move up to be President of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles, and next in line to become prophet. (Oaks and Ballard follow in seniority.) What are your thoughts?
Wheat & Tares 
The only time I ever was physically close to Elder Packer was at the October 1986 general conference. It was my first time at conference as a freshman at BYU. After the session, I saw Elder Packer walking away from the tabernacle. I was so excited to be at conference that I rushed up to him with an exuberance that probably harshed his reverent groove and shook his hand and loudly exclaimed “shake my girlfriend’s hand!” All these years later, knowing what a stickler he was for propriety and reverence, I can only hope our awkward encounter was quickly forgotten on his part!
Do these things come in threes? A little disappointed he is gone because I hoped Monson would die and there would be questioning of traditional succession if an obviously incapacitated Packer was next.
I would like the Lord to decide who the next Prophet is.
I am quite concerned that Elder Oaks is only two away from traditionally selected leader.
Geoff -Aus: Maybe the Lord IS deciding.
May God bless President Packer’s family in their loss. I recall discussing with my brother earlier this week what a great man Boyd K. Packer was, and how he blessed the Church with so many wonderful teachings and reminders of basic principles.
May God bless all the members of the LGBT community!!
Geoff–
We had better hope these things don’t come in threes. See Zechariah 11:8
“8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.”
#2 – that’s morbid and awful, Geoff. Wanting a man to die to satisfy your curiosity.
#5 – may God bless the LGBT folk whether BKP was alive or not with the TRUTH. If you’re chortling that someone who you apparently esteemed an enemy b/c he came to you and everyone else with the truth (Galatians 4:16), then it bespeaks how darkened your soul has become at your choosing.
#4 – well, in that a natural event (a 90 y.o. man passing away due to old age after several years of visibly declining health) is not overriden by the Lord, yes, it’s his “will”.
My condolences to the Packer family for their loss, and my appreciation for their sacrifices to support him in his Apostolic duties. May all PH holders consider him an example to emulate as applicable in their lives.
Elder Packer’s nick-name was Darth Packer. He scared many saints in his harsh insistence on protocol and the unwritten order of things. He filled dutifully the role of a priestly servant for nearly 50 years. He emphasized obedience in discipleship during that time, admonishing us on the nuances of religious duty as well as the cultural observances he associated with discipleship. He framed grace as a precarious balance between justice and mercy and warned us that obedience kept us safe from spiritual crocodiles. I could sum up his life-long message as “obedience and protocol”. He also wrote the church’s music handbook, forbidding French horns and trumpets (yes, ironically moroni’s trumpet) and essentially all music except the hymns. He was our pope Gregory, instituting stifling reformation guidelines in papal music and art. He expected us to be obedient in turning away from Mozart and Bach at church. I’ve noticed that president Hinckley, president monson, music and the spoken word, the MoTab and the orchestra at temple square don’t follow that handbook. I have mixed feelings about President Packer’s passing. Part of me laments the loss of a teacher who touched my heart with knowledge of beautiful truths and I do not deny he was the lord’s apostle. However, at the same time I struggled with his talks about lgbt persons (which I don’t think he understood), the unwritten order of things, the little factory, and other pharisaical admonitions. I’m glad to hear stories like the one you shared, but that’s not the elder packer I’ve observed during my lifetime. I think he was a complex person, an apostle and a man, struggling to find with his stewarded saints, a balance between justice and mercy.
Mortimer, there were 3 french horns in a general rs meeting a few years ago. As a brass player I was hoping it might mark a softening of the stance on brass instruments… but it appears to have been a one off. I’d love to see a renaissance in respect of music in our worship services.
It’s been interesting to read the stories that show Elder Packer’s softer side on the blogs today. My condolences to his family.
What I will miss about Bro. Packer is his talks where he taught that the church is only the scaffolding for the family and individuals. He seemed to feel that the church was not the most important thing in the world, but was only the support for the people and relationships which were the most important.
I remember particularly when he called for less extra Sunday meetings to go with the new 3 hour block (way back when), and said that we should use Sundays for family time and individual spiritual enrichment. I also remember him telling leaders to stop scheduling so many activities for the children and teens because “when you schedule a child, you schedule the mother too.” As a mom of several kids who has often been run ragged trying to get them to church many many times each week, I was so glad to hear him teach these ideas.
Unfortunately, no one listened to him on these things, but I appreciate his efforts in teaching them anyway.
A friend of mine was in leadership in England when E. Packer and some of the more junior apostles were visiting. Someone asked them a question, and the junior apostles began to answer it. E. Packer stopped him and said to be very careful what he said because the membership tended to take any stray comment by an apostle and crystallize it into a hard and fast rule. Some things are better left unwritten.
When I heard about Elder Packer’s passing, I admit my first thought was, “I wonder how long it will take for Sis. Lavina Anderson to be rebaptised”
I admire her SO MUCH.
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/58075419-78/church-mormon-lds-women.html.csp
So many people try so very hard with so much passion.
My first thought was sadness; and I was glad to know my heart hurt for him and his family.
My second thought is that I hope heavenly mother has a real good PPI with him up there when she has the time.
Gays. Intellectuals. Feminists. He never backed down from that statement.
My first thought was, “that’s sad.”
My second thought was, “I doubt it will be long before President Monson passes.” For some reason I have this notion that Monson and Packer were trying to outlast each other because of competing ideas about what the modern Church should be. (Yes, I really am that cynical)
I find it telling that Mortimer (#8) gets seven “thumbs up” as of now. Kinda indicates just what spirit SOME of the bloggers pay heed to. How unfortunate…for them.
Like Kazim, the leader of the ‘Brotherhood of the Cruciform Sword’ from Indiana Jones 3 (the Last Crusade), I’m fairly sure that the soul of BKP was prepared. Mine hope is to get in a likewise state, though I’m sure I’m NOT on the ‘short list’ for the now TWO slots in the Quorum of the Twelve.
Yow-zers Douglas, I just got flamed online! Ha ha. How can I carry on? Wait, I have a second wind. I’m good.
I’m not going to whitewash things. Many saints wrestled with Elder Packer’s comments, some of which were edited in the engin’s printed conference editions.
All I can say now is that I hope that we follow his “unwritten order if things” and instructions for funerals, because his personal wishes were included in those talks. He didn’t want personal attention or reflection on life of the departed, he wanted funerals to be a teaching time about the plan of salvation. So in that vein, I will cease to reflect on elder packer the man or apostle, and will now only cite scripture about the afterlife. I hope everyone else does the same. Additionally, I’m sure he would be happiest if we only included the MoTab and an organist (no non-sanctified instruments) and also only sing current lds hymns. Amen.
If his personal wishes, the detailed wishes he insisted upon and dictated that we also follow precisely, are not observed exactly, I will be in slc with a copy of those talks and that &@&! music handbook, tearing them up into pieces and setting them aflame. The least we can do at this time is to follow his last wishes. No honorific personal biography, no stories about the man. Just the plan of salvation and a hymn please. He’s probably already irked that so many news outlets have highlighted him and not the gospel. Dang, missed opportunities!!!
Douglas, I think you would like this link.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeterson/2015/07/personal-encounters-with-elder-packer-part-3.html
Wow, now anyone who isn’t perceived as paying a fit tribute is literally demonized…scripturally demonized. Wow. Fwiw the anti mormon websites aren’t gushing at this time. For the number of people he offended both in and outside the church, there is surprising silence at his passing. They aren’t retaliating at his death and the author might just be supposing it as he didn’t cite any sources. There ought to be some sort of moderation in bloggernacle forums that call time out when conversations halt to a grinding stop when one side dubs another demons, thereby excusing anything they might have to say.
I find it interesting that most of the tributes to elder packer were extremely rare personal encounters by other LDS men. In that context, he was kind, human, compassionate, humorous, and forgiving. When he interacted with people personally, he could see the complexity of their lives, give them slack, the benefit of the doubt, understand their motives and actions and patiently respond. But, he couldn’t do that when addressing 15 million nameless, faceless saints and showed a lack of trust, a need for rules and an insistence on exactness in cultural and dogmatic obedience. Essentially, privately one could interact with elder packer in the higher law, but publicly he treated us with the lower law. That is the elder packer 99.999% of the church experienced, and essentially all women as the only personal stories posted (aside from family) have been from men, who would have culturally been more appropriate to associate. I wonder if his cloistered world prevented him from making personal connections with individuals from groups with which he ran aground (feminists, intellectuals and lgbt persons).
It’s nice to read some redeeming things about him. I thought he was far to preoccupied with other people’s genitals and what they might be doing with them and substituting heart warming fiction for historical fact.
In Sacrament today a male member gave his testimony and told two stories of his encounters with Elder Packer. Very nice stories.
I read comments on different sites regarding the death of Elder Packer. Interesting that those who accuse others of intolerance and being hateful are themselves the real intolerant and hateful ones.
So no one can ever accuse anyone of intolerance?
#18,#19 – it’s not the message giver that’s being ‘flamed’, it’s those that give the thumbs up. The type that can dance on someone’s headstone. Just speaks of WHAT spirit they evoke.
Howard is like a teacher on a holiday.
No class.
The dictionary definition of “no class” is to look at Winifred’s comments.
Mh
oh yeah. What Howard wrote is real classy