Women wear veil their faces during the Prayer Circle in the Temple, but do not veil their faces at any other time. Female temple workers do not wear veils at all. Why do you think this is?
Three years ago (this month) I asked why women wear veils. I noted that “Jewish law dictates that a man is required to cover his head during prayer.” But LDS men do not cover their heads during the prayer circle. Why is there unequal treatment in the prayer circle? The poll results said it was a cultural relic. Do you think this is still the case? Why are veils a part of female ceremonial clothing when they only time they are used is for the prayer circle?
Deaf female patrons do not veil their faces during the prayer circle.
Temple workers are in the endowment session to facilitate the patrons’ worship, not to worship themselves. We are conduits for the endowment ordinances, not participants. Thus, we are not dressed in ceremonial clothing, because we are not performing the ordinances for ourselves or as proxies for deceased individuals.
Male participants in the endowment ceremony already have their head covered.
I never veil my face as a patron (and I’m not deaf). I know temple workers have been instructed not to interfere with those of us who choose not to veil.
Male participants do not cover their faces like women do.
What’s really funny to me is that it is seen as a sign of respect to take off our hats when we pray, say the pledge of allegiance, moment of silence, national anthem, etc. Americans take their hats off, while Jews put hats on, both as a “sign of respect.”
I really don’t know, but those veil fabrics don’t breathe at all. It makes me feel as though I’m suffocating. I’m also a little bit allergic to the synthetic fabrics in them (it’s the same material drapes are made of), and I can’t tie it close to my chin or it itches like crazy. I’ve had female workers come up and retie it right under my skin tightly, which I resist because it is a nasty fabric.
I love to veil my face. It makes me private and warm as I listen to what is going on.
I believe in the more conservative RC churches women are still required to cover their heads.
But yes, MH is correct, men are reuired to take their hats off in church. Women however are meant to keep them on.
Wonderdog. That takes care of the prayer circle.
In Sunday School I once asked why we had the sisters even doing that. With a meaner tone in my voice I added that I thought that the men should veil their faces. But the sisters said that they never felt put down for it and seemed to like it.
I didn’t know all this stuff that has been mentioned here.
“the sisters said that they never felt put down for it and seemed to like it” What else do you expect them to say in Sunday School?
I highly doubt criticism of the temple would fly in any Sunday block meeting, regardless of how trivial.
The veil thing is strange, but for some reason it often calls to mind the idea of a Heavenly Mother – unseen yet actively participating. That train of thought usually distracts me from feeling claustraphobic. I would be happy to see the veil disappear, though.
Kelly – Just making sure I’m hearing you correctly. You don’t veil either sitting or standing in the circle? I’ve never seen this done, and would be very curious to know your approximate whereabouts – Mormon Corridor, elsewhere U.S., outside U.S….
I didn’t mind veiling so much until I learned more about how the early men of the church regarded and treated women. Then it, along with the endowment itself that places a husband between me and God, became quite suddenly so distasteful to me that I’ve had trouble attending. I used to regard it as alone time; now it’s become-invisible time.
Put me amongst those who don’t like the veil. It’s awkward to wear, and doesn’t stay put. If I get it balanced so it isn’t slipping backwards (nearly choking myself on the tie in the process to keep it put), the act of covering my face upsets that precarious arrangement and the weight then wants to pull thing off forwards. I find the whole veil thing very stressful. Of course it can slip sideways too, and then I have to explain to a well-meaning worker that yes I did realise the shoulder bow thing was an instruction for the men, not the women!
There are a variety of veil styles and materials available nowadays, some with combs to keep it place on top, some with thinner material to prevent suffocation. Not much help to those of us who live hundreds of miles away from a distribution center, but if you are traveling might check it out.
I wouldn’t know if others are veiling or not since I can’t see….
If you have issues with the fabric, of course accommodation can be made. I’ve had the temple staff be incredibly helpful when dealing with folks who have various issues (prosthetic limbs, claustrophobia), and it turns out that things are not as set in stone as we assume.
For example, I usually stand during much of the endowment, because I have probably been sitting for hours to get there and my back can’t take it.
[That said, if a temple worker came up and tried to touch me or my clothing without asking first I would probably slap their hands away.]
Well there are a variety of veil styles, it’s true. But a comb won’t help, in my rather fine, soft baby hair (I was a bald baby, so I guess it’s an improvement). I’ve never been able to get a comb or grip to stay put, even without the weight of a veil on it. An alice band might work. But it would have to fit. And would I be allowed to purchase and fit one to my veil I wonder? If it did work it could do away with that horrible under chin bow…
One of my MTC companions had this very same question, back in the day. When she asked the Temple Matron the response pretty much boiled down to, “Because reasons.”
I’m not sure how I feel about the veil. On the one hand, the introvert in my loves the solitude, but on the other hand it feels like it’s only there to symbolically reinforce the idea that women and men have inherently different ways of approaching God, something that just doesn’t sit right with me.
Wow, speaking of symbols, the veil is a pretty great one to illustrate my conflicted feelings about the temple in general. Huh.
Maybe it’s really very simple. Temple working sisters are not veiled because we’re supposed to take them seriously. Look to them for guidance. Listen to their advice. Follow their instructions. Regard them as serious human beings. You know, like a priesthood holder.
I can’t even wear a scarf without feeling suffocated. putting the veil over my head gives me claustrophobia (as well as being blocked in on all sides by people). Lately I’ll sit on the side, look over at the wall and bow my head – so it’s not bothering people that I’m not veiling.
The prayer circle is not the only place. Endowed LDS women are buried with the veil over their face. If it is just a symbol, we keep that symbol to the bitter end.
Lory, I don’t intend to be buried wearing my robes. I hope my family will respect my wishes. By all means, put them in the coffin with me (I’ll have them to put on if I so choose … – yeah it all sounds a bit like the egyptian burial practices…), but don’t dress me in them.
The veil is literally a deal-breaker for me. I have vowed not to participate in another endowment session until it’s eliminated.
I forgot that dead women have to go to their graves with that danged veil over their faces. Do you think it would help if I threatened to haunt whomever veils my dead body?
You can make the request, but you can’t control what family members do after you’re gone. It is a testimony to my grandma’s sainthood that she didn’t come back and give someone a talking to for the hideous makeup job and wig someone put on her. That would bug me much more than a transparent cloth between my face and the suffocatingly heavy casket lid.
Anon,
RE: not veiling during the endowment ceremony. I don’t usually go into the prayer circle. I just sit in my seat and when the women are instructed to veil their faces, I choose not to. I’ve been doing it this way for years. Only once have I been approached by a temple worker and told to veil my face. I refused and then later complained to the temple president that she was disturbing my worship experience. He assured me that the temple workers are not supposed to “correct” anyone on that matter and assured me that it wouldn’t happen again. I live in the US, but I do not live in the Mormon corridor. I have been told that temple workers in UT have received this instruction though. No one is supposed to interfere with a woman who chooses not to veil her face.
Kelly – I’ll think about this. Thank you.
Hawkgrrrl:#10
Yeah. I guess. I don’t know. This is Minnesota. Maybe I need to move to Salt Lake City.
The fact that we’re going through the temple (all but the first time) for someone else makes it hard to “own” it, to have one’s participation or non-participation carry weight. I’ve seen discussions where women considering different participation are told they they’re not there for themselves, they’re there for the dead, and how can you be so selfish?