Letter to LDS Singles — A guest post by Jess Lang
To Whom It May Concern: June 28, 2011
The inactivity within the Church for singles over thirty is at least over 80%. It’s unreal. It’s surreal. It’s tragic. And it is largely invisible. Without a doubt, I am convinced that this is the largest problem the Church faces today. It is a legitimate crisis. If you have come to believe otherwise, then you have been acclimated and blind to the biggest problem in the Church today. The problem with age thirty-plus singles inactivity affects every other program in the Church. It touches missionary work, temple work, Home and Visiting Teaching, the ability for wards to fill callings, and the list goes on.
I think I have a solution to the singles problem for people over age thirty in the Church. In my experience, I have both seen and heard many people complain about the Mid-Singles Program (and for obvious reason.) It seems painfully obvious to me that no matter how many problems exist in the program, there remains one problem which, if fixed, would make major improvements to the program as a whole and, hence, people’s lives.
Here it is: If we found a way to get small numbers of singles together on a regular basis to have actual fun, while simultaneously allowing them to meet new people on a constant basis, then we will have done something.
The reason the standard activities are non-effective is because they are geared toward large numbers of people. No sane person would ever go on a first or second date to a Church dance or Fireside. Ever. They are anti-social, confusing, usually embarrassing, and usually no fun. And most importantly, they are no place to meet or get to know anyone. Yet, this is really all the Church offers at this point for singles over thirty. Those activities do not provide an atmosphere conducive to finding an eternal companion.
THE STAKE ROTATION SYSTEM: Let’s use my city as a template. For example, there are some sixteen stakes throughout the Denver, Colorado region right now. What if each of these stakes was to be paired off to have activities with another stake in the same region for three months? Then three months later, each stake could switch and pair off with another stake in the same region for another two to three months. This process could be repeated throughout the region until all stakes have spent time with each other. For Denver, on the three month model, everyone in the region would have the opportunity to meet every other single in the region within a two year period. Then, hopefully, the number of singles would shrink for the right reasons, for once.
Granted, the corresponding stakes would have to communicate with each other in order to plan activities, (and get permission from whomever), but the advantages are clear:
1) The numbers would be smaller by far. I believe that 20-25 people are a perfect number. There is real potential for good conversation, along with the ability to get to know someone.
2) Anyone who went would be meeting people they already knew from their own stake, as well as new people. A perfect mix!
3) Because the stakes would be paired off for two-three months, anyone who was interested in someone would have the opportunity of meeting them two or three more times…even if the two stakes met only once per month (three activities.) Who can’t get a phone number in that amount of time?
4) Because the groups are small, they would have more freedom to do things that actually foster good conversation (i.e. game nights, hikes, restaurants, etc….)
*Number four is important. People need something to get them talking…something that makes them be their fun self. Dances usually don’t do it. Firesides never did it. (How could one person talking while a hundred others sit and listen ever be anything remotely social? And don’t give me that bit about meeting in the foyer afterward! The very definition of lame.) And, honestly, volleyball barely works either, say what you will. I swear, if all we did was game nights with this rotating stake idea, we would improve the collective situation 1000%. Believe me; I have seen evidence of this so many times at game nights with less than twenty-five people.
PART II: And now for the rest of the story. I pitched this idea in a letter to Church leaders in 2007. One of the Seventy called me about it several months later. He seemed to like it a lot and mentioned that they might try it in Boston as a test city. Obviously, I was very excited.
The General Authority also told me that the Brethren had some reservations about it because they preferred activities be held in Church buildings as opposed to people’s houses. That way they could have more control over potential mishaps like stalkers, immorality, and whatnot. I sent him another letter disagreeing with that idea. I told him that I personally felt that there was more control in a home because stalkers can’t really do their thing, and as far as immorality goes, people tend to leave the party before anything like that happens. But I could be wrong. Anyway, that was the last time we spoke.
Nothing ever came of my idea. There was no test in Boston and I have not heard from them again.
I know personally that the Brethren care a great deal. They are running a worldwide Church, however, and singles are just one element of what they are called to manage. But there remains a palpable gulf between them and the singles. And the wheels of change seem to be a bit gummed up. Somehow, the communication lines between Church leadership and the singles in the Church remain a bit inoperable.
The result feels as if we, the singles, have no real representation within the Church at all. Yes, we have plenty of people to tell us that they care, and we believe that they do. And we all know that, yes, if we do not find a spouse in the world, we will find one in the next. Still, some of us cannot help but look over the situation and think, “Yeah, but does it really have to be as bad as that? Can’t we at least make some sort of collective attempt at fixing the problem now (in this life), so at least some of us might enjoy the fruits of marriage in this life? Isn’t it logical to believe that if the program got better, then maybe some of the inactive singles might come back, thereby improving the program just by adding to our selection of potential mates?”
It is for this reason that I ask each reader who agrees with me on this, to please pitch it to everyone who will listen. Everyone in the Church should be aware of both the problem and its potential solution (s). Once we have a collective conversation, something might just get done. We, the active singles, must stop being ashamed of ourselves. We have to make our local leaders and the members of our wards recognize us as a force to be reckoned with… that we are neither an embarrassment nor a tragedy, and that we will not allow ourselves to be disenfranchised. In fact, those of us who are active remain some of the most devout people in the Church.
Our call to worthiness is a higher one than those who are married. We work, raise kids, and perform the business of life, without the blessings of a spouse. We deserve to be respected and heard. If we are expected to be married eternally in order for us to fulfill our desired destiny, then we deserve a functional means to bring that to pass.
Please, stop being scared. Open your mouth. You will not get excommunicated for telling the truth in a respectful way to the very people who claim to care and who have the means to help make good changes. You will not go to hell for stating the obvious in an effort to help the Church retain its members and help them get married. Let’s not let another generation of single Mormons suffer this deplorable situation. Finally, if you believe that the idea I have shared with you might make a difference, please give it a try. Present it to local leaders, and do what you can.
Thank you and Godspeed,
Jess Lang
I don’t know enough about singles and the singles programs in the Church, but I’d appreciate your comments and suggestions about singles, the singles programs and this guest post.
Thanks. Used by permission from http://celibateinthecity.blogspot.com/2011/07/letter-to-lds-singles.html
Great post Jess. I am a 29 year old divorced single father that relates to much of your post. The thing the bothered me the most about the churches reaction was the rather paternalistic idea that no good or safe activities can happen at somebody’s home but they must happen at the church.
This reinforces the criticism that the church treats its single members as not fully adult or somehow in a state of arrested development. As a former squad leader in the Marine Corps, talented historian that chaperones college aged youth, and adult who had successfully managed my own life, I think I can handle any potential “problems” from having a social at my house. People having sex in the bedroom, spiking the punch, or not taking no for an answer is much more of a problem for high school aged youth and fraternities, not active 30 something Latter Day Saints. Not to mention that anybody that did want to fornicate could also drive home from church to do so.
Activity rates with singles is certainly a problem. I got married in my 30’s, so I understand the problem. However, I dispute that the inactivity rate is 80%.
I was in a Singles’ ward in northern Utah that was so big, the bishopric actually had 4 counselors (rather than 2). However, the Stake President decided to kill the ward, and send people to family wards. Living in Utah, I was able to go ward-hopping, and attended wards from Ogden to Salt Lake. By my ward’s standards, I was considered inactive.
I was very upfront with my bishop, and told him that I would continue to pay my tithing to my “home” ward, but I had no desire to attend, and wanted to attend some singles’ wards. I was a bit surprised when he basically admitted that he didn’t know what to do with me, and he supported my decision.
Rumors had it that the Stake President dissolved the ward without authority from SLC. I heard that the bishop didn’t officially get released for months. Some leaders just don’t understand how to relate to singles. When I did get married, and started attending my home ward, I still felt like a fish out of water. My wife, on the other hand, didn’t have the history, and liked my ward.
MH,
Utah is a lot better than other parts of the country for attendance. The numbers I got in the Denver area were from four different Bishops. And the numbers were higher than what I expressed in the letter.
Stephen,
Thank you for posting this. Truly. I hope some singles read it.
Morgan and MH,
Thank you both for your comments and getting this hopeful thread rolling!
The problem with the Denver Area is that there’s not an official and active 30-something Midsingles Program. What other areas have done to really help Midsingles is to have Midsingles Magnet Wards where all 30-something Midsingles within the same stake (including their kids if the single parents) all attend the same family host ward together. Then they organize Midsingles activities on a ward or regional level. For more info how other area are running their Midsingles Program, feel free to check out the Midsingles Blog at http://midsingles.wordpress.com under Midsingles Program
Matt,
Are you in Denver, I wonder? I have heard of the Magnet program with mixed reviews. But I admit I’ve never been to one. It seems like the farther east you go from Utah, the worse it gets…with the exception of D.C.
Another thing about Magnets, it throws all singles over age 30 into the gossipy, juvenile environment of YSA wards. People cherish their privacy and the ability to date off the radar. If nothing else, I think that the Stake Rotation idea would be better bet for that reason. But U could be wrong.
Matt,
But I could be wrong. On a phone. Sorry. 🙂
Morgan,
About the Church wanting all activities at churches, I’ve heard mixed reviews on that lately. It used to be that way, nut I am hearing through the grapevine that it is changing. I have even heard that they WANT activities at people’s homes these days.
GC, if you looked on the Midsingles Blog on my link) you will see where I’m from. 🙂 Orange County, California. Magnet Wards don’t throw all singles over 30 into the same juvenile environment of a YSA Ward. Not true. In fact Midsingles Magnet Wards are just for 30-something Midsingles (31-early 40s), but they also interact the families of all ages who live within the ward boundary too. Most Midsingles hold regular ward callings like YM, YW, EQ, RS, etc in the ward plus Midsingles callings too, as needed. Here we do a dual approach to separate decade group activities (so 30s Midsingles, 40s, 50s, Elite Singles 60+) each have separate activities with a little overlap for people on the cusp between decades, AND then we combine quarterly for all-age 31+ regional activities. Your decade group AND all-age. Works much better that way. Some of our decade group activities are smaller like restaurant dinner group, beach parties, game nights, etc and then there a larger scale activities too. You need to mix it up between large and small, formal vs informal, at the church vs not at the church, decade group vs all-age, to offer variety and help singles mix and mingle to foster more interaction, which will lead to more dating and eventually more marriages…
However, I dispute that the inactivity rate is 80%
I suspect that none of us know the right/accurate number, but I also believe that the Church has a good idea of the real number.
Would be neat if all the statistics were released “again” (last time I saw comprehensive statistics, they were overhead projector transparencies and I was told I did not need to take notes, the numbers were being released next month or so …).
I appreciate the comments so far.
And, Glass Ceiling, when my wife and I were called to support the young singles, the activity focus was on holding them in homes, the same as the older singles for our stake who met down the street from us in my last ward.
I have a 33 year old daughter who has never been on a date as far as I am aware, because she choose not to date outside the church.
We do not have a midsingles programe in our Stake or region, and she has not been to a church activity except Sunday meetings since leaving YSA. For her sanity I think she has given up hope of marriage though she loves her neices and nephews and would make a wonderful mother.
We are so glad she has a career as a federal Police officer (CIA and FBI combined), and her hobby of rural fire fighting.
Wish there was something like you describe. Is there any thing you can suggest? We are in Brisbane Australia.
If 80% of singles over 30 are inactive, what is the percentage for those married over 30? Does the single category include divorced and widowed?
#2 MH: However, I dispute that the inactivity rate is 80%
I think the 80% number is actually correct, and would guess that it might actually be HIGHER rather than lower.
I live along the Wasatch Front and have talked to people who know the actual numbers. While I don’t have the number for “middle-aged” singles, the activity rate for YSA along the Wasatch front is in the teens (ie. around 16-18%). And this includes a very liberal definition of “active” which doesn’t even count going to Church every week. It is also along the Wasatch Front, which is the “most active” region of the Church. In fact, it’s being called the “lost generation” of the Church and there are a lot of discussions going on about what to do. I think ideas like this are what they need to hear.
My own personal opinion is that there isn’t a PROGRAM that will fix the problem. Instead there are silly generational opinions that have been translated into pseudo-doctrines that basically don’t appeal to people two generations removed from Church leadership (ie. tattoos, color of shirts, garments, etc). I had a series going on this, but basically cancelled it.
Unfortunately, I think the chance of Church leadership actually addressing a “policy” is very small. They think that coming up with a new “program” will magically fix everything.
I think this is a very good idea for regions with a lot of stakes etc. and I commend your efforts to promote a way for mid-singles to meet and actually have fun outside of awkward church events.
However, I agree with Mike S., any program the church adopts is essentially a band-aid. Unless the reasons for the mass exodus of this demographic are addressed, a program for the remaining few won’t make much of a difference.
It’s great to have these continuing conversations. A few years ago, I was the high councilor in our stake resonsible for YSAs and a fellow high councilor (who happened to be single) was responsible for the over-30 group. We were always looking for ways to engage this remarkably diverse group which included (in our stake) single parents, widows & widowers, divorcees and never-been-marrieds. One ward showed well over 100 on their rolls, though many could not be verified (and could well have been married in the meantime); other wards likely showed fewer than existed. But from my experience, I wouldn’t be totally surprised by the 80% number.
Mike S, while the cultural issues you cite may be a driving force in Mormonland along the Wasatch Front, I suspect where we are (in a not-so-large metropolis in the midwest) it’s much more a lack of identification with the church in late teen-early 20’s years that simply slides into complete unawareness by the 30’s. Just my hunch watching some of my own kids who are in that demographic.
I spoke with four different Bishops in Denver over the past several years, and they were saying that our numbers were like 90+% inactivity for singles over age 30. We have around 8000 singles over 30 in Denver. If the percentage is correct, we have roughly 800 or so active…and many of those do not attend activities. The problem is killing the future of the Church for more people than anyone wants to admit. Think of these people’s kids, missionary work, our collective reputation, etc…
What happen ls at age 30, is folks have to go back to their home wards feeling like losers . It is at this point where many assess the situation as hopeless and move on. For others, it takes several years after that (too many dances and Firesides with to no avail ) and they eventually start responding to the romantic advances of nonmembers. They also start to believe that it is either God or love…God or a sex-life. They resent that only the very blessed ( and those fortunate to have gone to a Mormon college in the first place) appear to be the only singles who get married in the Church.
The whole thing starts to look and feel ridiculous and cruel …all the eternal pressure and spiritual rhetoric on one side, with little more than crowd -control type activities on the other. These folks start to feel like a projects and a resented obligatiosn…a collective and individual tragedy and rather than children of God.
Finally, we should question any system that makes you feel old at the ripe ancient age of 30.
These are only some of the problems that need to be addressed if there is to be any improvement for single people in the Church. Is this what you all mean when you refer to the “underlying problems ,” or “inherent problems” regarding singles?
Sorry for the typos. On a phone.
I should also mention the “rotating door ” of young single mothers. They inherently tend to be attracted to the Church initially. They make all the changes it takes to join the Church (quit their bad habits and worldly friends, etc) , then they eventually find out that they are not welcome at YSA events. This, if course, means that they have to go to the main singles activities where 23 year-old single mother’s get hit on by elderly men. Within six months, these girls are not only ex-Mormons, but anti-Mormons. This is hardly time well spent by missionaries and the families who tried to support these young women into the Church. I have personally seen this happen regularly when I was a ward missionary.
Anyone uncomfortable yet?
When did the inactive singles become inactive? A thinning of the ranks to inactivity as a cohort passes through its late 20s into its 30s indicates one sort of phenomenon. Inactive 20-year-olds who a decade later are inactive 30-year-olds and more single than 30-year-olds who were active Church members in their young 20s would indicate another phenomenon. With the first case, singleness leads to inactivity. With the second, the diverging social patterns of inactive Mormons living like non Mormons leads to inactive Mormons having demographic characteristics that are different from active Mormons’.
Geoff, on the Midsingles Blog, I have linked all the local Midsingles facebook groups including several in Australia, including Brisbane. Australia has several Singles Conventions (Conferences in the U.S.) that skew younger-ish and draw more of a 30s Midsingles crowd. That info can be found on the Aussie Midsingles facebook groups and sometimes on the official Australian Church website http://lds.org.au under Calendar
Glass Ceiling, here I live, single parents that are YSA-aged, can attend the 30s Midsingles Magnet Ward with their kids, and then can also attend YSA activities.
18 John Mansfield, I think this is a great question, and once which deserves some study, since the solutions could be quite different from one another. I suspect it’s a combination of both, and just as some drop off when passing from Mom & Dad’s ward to some student ward, others may drop off when passing back from singles wards to “home” wards.
The Church puts its energy into YSAs. And they do a decent job there. But guess what? We have 30,40,50,60,70+ year-old singles. (Somehow I fear you losing interest… )
But each is a personal tragedy. They belong to a Church that really does not care enough to help them live up to their eternal desires, and God’s commands. I know, I know…they can just wait for the next world.
But do you know what people do in other churches when their clergy/church treats them like that? They find another church, and they tell everyone they know why they left.
The hard truth can still set you free. Our Church has a cancer, and everyone keeps scratching their heads as to why. Still, there are things they just don’t wanna know, over and over again. And those things keep coming back. Its very predictable.
When we surveyed the 30+ singles in our midwestern stake (and someone spoke to each one that could be reached at the time) about how best to support and serve them, there were some interesting findings:
1. Some wanted more activities like the ones described in the OP — small group, appropriate activities that allowed social interaction without the meat-market feeling of simply forcing a match.
2. Some wanted more firesides, family home evenings and other spiritual events, particularly away from their children (if they had children).
3. Some wanted nothing in particular. They felt they were productive members of their home wards with (or without) their children and did not want a change in the status quo.
4. Some did not want to participate in any activity or worship because they no longer self-identified as church members.
In our stake, at least, it was not true that their church did not care enough (cf #22), but perhaps more accurately was trying to sort out how to show that incredibly diverse group how much it cared. One way was to recognize those individuals as individuals, not as a group to be programed.
Jess, I thought your proposal was excellent. I think the reason it hasn’t been tried is that it requires coordination between stakes, and that’s something I don’t think the church does often or well (based simply on my experience with multi-stake youth dances). The structure isn’t really set up for it. I don’t think there exists committee structure (eg., RS presidencies, single adult reps, YM/YW presidencies) at the area level like you do at the stake level, and experience has shown that programs operating outside the church structure don’t last very long.
Don’t get me wrong, though. There’s no reason in the world an area seventy couldn’t organize an area-level single-adult committee and get the ball rolling.
Paul, that was my sense of things when I was the guy from the High Priests’ Group on the ward council for this point.
Martin, it might be that this is the sort of thing to pitch to various area 70s to try out and see if it works.
Stephen,
I think that local married area 70s should pitch it throughout their areas. It takes married leadership to get this sort of thing going. I agree with you completely.
Martin,
I agree with you too. Our current structure could kill it before it starts. This is what I danced around in the letter about…without getting specific. The local leaderships do not know their perameters. They are Ubuntu charge of many people, but they are waiting from Church leadership to make all the decisions. Yet when Church leadership communicates with them, I suspect its in terms of, “How’s your singles situation going?” No one wants to tell Utah,”It’s deplorable. It couldn’t be worse. ” No, they say, “It’s great. We had a really spiritual Fireside last month that several folks personally told me they loved….” In other words, the wrong questions are being asked within the wrong conversations. When they do condescended to ask a single, they make sure it’s the spiffy lacky stake singles rep who is (just like area leadership) more interested in how to create a better dance it Fireside than how to help people get married.
Paul,
Interesting findings there. I have to believe, however , that the older (over 30) singles are not as divided as they may seem. The ones clamoring for more Firesides may have just been saying that they wanted less dances and less small groups within their own stake. In other words, people are often acclimated into thinking all small activities generally mean hanging out with the same tired faces in their own stake. The Stake Rotation idea is new. Folks cannot intelligently judge what they don’t know and have not tried. The huge drop in attendance at dances and Firesides says it all…along with the huge inactivity in general. People vote with their feet.
Finally, I should say that although I am not an expert, (then again, maybe I am ), I have worked with local leadership, and I have many single friends in the Church who gave borne their souls to me on these issues. As far as Denver goes, I speak for the silent majority. Also, I know how local and Church leadership generally thinks on these issues. I have spoken with each them. They all care, but local leadership is unsure of their job limitations, and Church leadership is concerned (at least with regard to my idea ) of how far they can trust singles to run things themselves in the face of potential lawsuits, and morality concerns Hence, the safer, yet ineffective, large group in a church building wins again . Still, if my idea was to be run from local leadership (as in stakes got permission from local leaders on what things the stakes as duos could do), then it might work and please all parties. And it’d force stakes and area leaderships to communicate about more than just these monolithic activities. People would also be forced to learn the perameters of their jobs. Best if all, people across teirs would start communicating beyond the same lumbering template that has existed since the old days of square-dancing.
I personally think we would be better off with no program , and singles being free to do what they want as long as they don’t do it under the umbrella of The Church. Call me crazy.
Hoo boy. Where to start?
I belonged to eight singles wards from the time I was 18 until I was in my mid-40s. I left the Church over singles issues. So, FWIW:
1) the fact that we’re not married has no bearing on our maturity levels. We’re not kids needing to be chaperoned by a 20-year old married couple. We run companies, households, and marathons. We’re not deficient or challenged. We’re just not married.
2. From my observations, many singles do leave the Church because they seek adult companionship outside the Church and outside of gospel doctrine (ie, they are tired of living like 40-year old adolescents and just want to haves normal sexual relationship without having to run to the Bishop every other week. One of my friends put it to me this way: “no matter what I’m doing now, when I get married and finally start my family, I’ll go back to Church.”
3. Church is mind-numbingly boring.
4. Singles are busy.
GC: Your post in 16 hit the nail on the head. Pretty much all of it describes my thought process. I’m especially angry at a culture that makes 30 year old successful adults feel like over the hill outcasts. It really does feel ridiculous and cruel.
Fwiw, my suggestions:
1) Open the possibilities for single adults to serve in just about any calling in the Church. I’m OK with Bishops and Relief Society Presidents having to be married, but just about everything else? Let single adults serve in those callings.
2) Actually call single adults of ALL ages to serve in positions of responsibility.
3) Keep teaching the ideal of families, but quit preaching it constantly in just about every meeting. Nobody likes to get kicked in the teeth every time they attend church – especially those who are regular, “worthy” members in every way measurable.
4) Recognize that the YSA age is brutal on attendance rates in ALL religions and denominations. Do what you can, but understand that when young adults leave home, they often walk away on their own for a time.
5) Perhaps more importantly, stress real worship and spirit-filled meetings in ALL we do communally. Make Sacrament Meeting a true worship service, not a forum to guilt people into more HT/VT or get their food storage in order or preach about the importance of tithing. Those are fine and dandy for Sunday School or PH/RS (mostly the latter), but they are inappropriate for Sacrament Meeting.
Ray, those are excellent suggestions for everyone, not just singles.
FWIW, I’ve been in many units where singles served along side marrieds, including as Primary President, EQP, counselors to bishops, members of YW and YM presidencies, high councilors, clerks, teachers, etc. But I can see where there are a high number of “singles” wards that the segregation would be more signifcant (and re-entry would be more traumatic).
#3 and #5 are important for all. Hear, hear!
I know how local and Church leadership generally thinks on these issues. I have spoken with each them. They all care,
That is a good think to remember.
I’m wondering if there is a template that singles groups can use. When I was in southern California, we had regional activities and regional planning groups.
It would be easy to create a template for doing that (e.g. for regional dances) and then use that same template for other things once it was moving.
This post addresses one of my biggest fears since my wife passed a few months ago. I really don’t fit in with the ward any more (I barely felt like I did before), and I don’t have much hope for the Single Adult program in our stake. I see activities listed on the stake calendar, but I’ve never heard them announced, and don’t know anyone who goes. Maybe I should start taking the hour drive north to Denver from Colorado Springs–at least there someone it talking about it. I’m not ready to start any kind of social scene yet–it is still too soon–but I’d at least like to know I’ve got an option.
When I talked to my bishop about fitting in now, he admitted that he was clueless as to how to help me. Thanks for starting this conversation.
CS Eric – I’m sorry for your loss.
Mike S – where those the mountain out of a molehill posts? Those are the whole reason I started reading Wheat and Tares! Bring them back if you can think of new topics… what ever happened with the mass email to beehive clothing anyway?
Singles in the church today are like blacks in the church pre-1978. The ones who can tough it out are either true stalwarts or gluttons for punishment.
I agree with many of the above reasons that these problems still exist:
– Local leadership who stick with status quo because they are afraid to overstep their bounds with common sense solutions. I think piloting some ideas within stakes and across stakes will help to show what works and what doesn’t.
– Church is boring. A fireside is not an engaging date on any level, either married or single. Sorry, but so it is. I can recognize an idea with no inspiration behind it when I see it, and that’s one.
– I agree with Ray that we need better integration and acceptance. A worthy single is as good as a worthy married, and I say no exceptions for callings.
– Singles are not kids. However, making an EFY analogy might help – what if there were national and international conferences to bring together adult singles like the EFY program does? The program would have to be zero like EFY except in bringing people together. Topics and locales would have to be exciting. Like EFY, maybe it needs to start as a private venture.
– LDS marriages haven’t happened, so I do think it’s very natural for people to date and marry outside the church in those cases, even if they intend to try to win their spouse over to the church after marriage. The simple fact is that they haven’t found a suitable partner in the church, and they’ve been essentially insulted by the church as a result (women are overlooked wallflowers who probably haven’t done enough to be attractive and men are either hard-hearted or cowardly – unfair and untrue characterizations in both cases).
Really sorry for the typos. I hate hate hate my phone.
Here is the truth:
Humans are born to have sex. We are commanded to do it. We are SET UP to need it and want it. Often. (Just ask Mormons how they feel about Catholic priests and their “holy” lifestyle.) And yet, the most recognizeable comment made from Church leadership on the subject of prolonged singleness is “You will be given the opportunity in the next life.”
HOWEVER, you can believe that you will not have that opportunity in the next life of you are not valiant (sexless until married ) in this one . See the catch 22? So, if you stay valient for 30 years then run away screaming, you are lost. If you stay righteous and single your whole life, but are bitter, you are hardly valiant But if you abandon the Church until you find a spouse after a decade of worldly living, you are saved. It is, without a doubt, insane.
Those who sugarcoat the situation, do it at the risk of rotting the Church itself. No one likes the subject. It’s ugly. People have to think of how singles actually pull off sexlessness for years on end. Never a good thought train any way you cut it. I think this is why some singles hate the subject, I am convinced…and why they protest too much when well-meaning singles open their mouths.
We all agree that singles need better callings. Here’s the first one: Regional Singles President. Even better, Church Singles President.
I will go as far as to say that, in my opinion as an active and supportive member of the Church , there exists a soft apartheid in the Church regarding this business. It forms a divide. You don’t agree? Forgive me, but unless you are single or have been for a long time, I am not sure if you could know. All I can say is, think of the risks for singles. Who really represents them ? And do they really have a voice? Also, think of how 30+ singles get dismissive rhetoric from any and all, making them believe that it is because they are 45, or maybe it’s those extra 30 pounds, or that bad credit that saddles them to perpetual hunger, sorrow, and shame. It maybe its a disability. But guess what? Overweight , broke, disabled, depressed people get married every day out in the real world. Just like slim, affluent, healthy, happy people do.
Point? We are tired of being told why we are alone.
“Maybe it’s because you don’t go to the dances.”
The truth is that maybe the first year or two that singles heard the “next life speech ” from the First Presidency, it held some meaning, maybe. Now it comes out of any old mouth. And now it just sounds condescending, dismissive, and smug. The words no longer hold value. We have grown out of them. And they appear to be a huge umbrella for those who feel the 30+ singles program is doing just fine.
Finally, as a single person in the Church, it is really hard to be a member missionary to single nonmembers for obvious reasons. Who wants to inflict possible perpetual singledom on even their worst enemy? Is THAT Christlike?
See the dilemma?
I have a challenge for the W &T staff: Take on this stuff regularly. Get a smidge of repute. Singles will get the word. Who knows, you could make a difference. I don’t wanna suggest you get yourself typecast over it.
Balance in all things, right?
But that is all I am really trying to achieve. Again, th!ank you Stephen for taking a risk on this. Don’t let anyone tell you that you are not a Good Samaritan. 🙂
Hawkgrrl,
I recognize integrity when I read it. Thank you. 🙂
All,
With all respectfulness, please refrain from mistakingly making the YSAs synonymous with age 30+ singles. They are very different groups with very different issues. Here are a some differences:
*The Church actually awards them with some level of agency. And trust.
*They have a larger budget from the Church .
*The future of the Church rides in them. They are given priority.
*Their most important goals align with some of BYU’s most important goals.
*They still fit into the Church’s “Circle of Life.” Therefore, it is both righteous and, in a way, rewarding to roll out the red carpet on their behalf. We wanna be a part of their success and joy. We wanrna give them our trust. It is both natural and good.
*We are often more mature. We are older, and have lived more of life. We often have more responsibilities, therefore deserving of more trust than your average 22 year-old.
*30+ singles are worthy of shame and abandonment because we are “menaces” and then some. There is something big, BIG wrong with us.
PS: Please forgive my raw cynicism. It’s worse than usual. Two of my friends quit the Church this past month over these things. One friend told me this afternoon.
Touché, Glass Ceiling. Touché.
John Mansfield,
The singles number includes divorced and widowed. Sorry. Lost ya for a bit.
Glass Ceiling, I appreciate greatly your input on this thread, but has anyone confused the young single adults with the single adults in this thread? Perhaps I missed that, but I don’t remember reading such mixing here.
Gemma,
I’d really like to compare notes. My email is jesslangis@gmail.com. Open to everyone at any time, actually. This stuff is kinda one of my passions. ( along with just trying to make my experience count.)
Ray,
I believe you are right. Sorry if I said it that way…and I can see now that I did. It’s just a common problem in Church communication of this subject , you know. I wanted to get it on record …since I am finally with people who are both cognizant and care.
Thank you for mentioning it, Ray…and for your earlier thoughts. Your fifth suggestion on your list above runs deep with me and every single single I know.
Stephen,
I may sound salty on Church leadership. I don’t mean to. I blame middle management. Always have. (Along with insufferable singles who obviously want everyone to stay single, just like them. So they pooh-pooh anything out of the box , all in the name of altruism and obedience. ) MM are the eyes and ears if Church leadership. They should be talking to…um, …well, me! 🙂
#33: BethSmash:
I’m glad you were enjoying the series. There are at least 10-20 more topics in the series that I had planned on addressing. I stopped writing them because the idea was being co-opted, and I basically got sick of that happening despite various discussions about it. It kind of bummed me out on the whole idea. I may get around to writing more someday, but who knows if/when that will be.
CS Eric,
I am also sorry about your wife. I can imagine how it would feel frightening for you, along with many other emotions. I wish you God’s help throughout it all.
Thanks every one for your well wishes. I didn’t want to derail the conversation. Part of my point was that, even though our stake appears to have something in place for Single Adults, as far as I can see it doesn’t get a lot of support or attention. I’m sure if it did, my bishop would have suggested it to me when I talked with him about my concerns. Frankly, before I suddenly became a Single Adult, I never paid the SA program any attention either.
I’m more in the self sufficiency camp. I don’t think singles, or anyone, should look to the church to meet their needs, and take care of or even coddle them. I believe the church’s purpose ought to be to spread the gospel, and not much more.
I think singles can solve most or all of the problems discussed here, by their own actions. (We don’t need a nanny church!) 😉
I was in singles wards until age 33. Probably 9 wards in 3 different states. Got married at 34 (recently). I think I get what you all are saying-it wasn’t always easy–but it also wasn’t that bad. Why blame the church?
Looking back over this, I am not clear what the purpose of gatherings of middle-aged unmarried saints would be. The open letter mentions respect and being heard, but I don’t follow the connection of that with gatherings. Finding marriage partners is mentioned a couple times, but that seems to be just one purpose. What does a 37-year-old unmarried man need in his relationships with the saints that his married quorum members don’t?
Allqu.,
Thank you for bringing this up. It comes up constantly.
BYUs exist in part to get people married. Folks pay their dues and most get what they paid for. Are we really to believe that Mormons just HAVE to have a Mormon education to make it in the world? They can’t go get a degree elsewhere?
Why “blame ” the Church? Does anyone really believe that’s what this is about? If a Protestant or a Catholic wants to find a date, all they have to do is walk out their front door. Chances are, they will find someone who matches their beliefs while they are just going about the business of living. But why should they much care? Finding someone of their faith is not a requirement for heaven.
All the reverse is true for Mormons. And on-line dating is hardly the solution. People tend to get fake on line out of percieved necessity, and it just ends up being another barrier.
John Mansfield,
A dating pool that he can, in a dignified and kind way, sift his way into proximity of “the one.” Just like everybody else in the Church, John.
In more succinct terms, an eternal wife amid the din of a fallen world. Do we not all understand
TALL order here?
How many of you married folks following this thread met your spouse at a fireside or dance? Just asking.
…the TALL order here…?
Allqu.,
“We don’t need a nanny church. ”
Maybe you just mean “we don’t need a Church. ”
This issue represents, far and wide, the biggest reason for inactivity in the Church. It touches every program the Church offers. It is the biggest problem in the Church, and it mocks all the Church stands for along with threatening its future.
You can bet that if the Church were losing half of it’s nine-year-olds or nineteen-year-olds, we’d all be anxiously engaged in the food cause.
I know I’m anxiously engaged in the food cause. (Sorry, couldn’t resist. That’s not meant to be mocking in any way; it’s just a hilarious typo.)
Ha! True enough. Freudian slip…
#52: “You can bet that if the Church were losing half of it’s nine-year-olds or nineteen-year-olds, we’d all be anxiously engaged in the food cause.”
They are losing more than half their 19-year olds. Activity rates among young men fall from near 100% at deacon age to about 30% by priest age church wide, and have so for decades.
Well that sucks ….
All,
I fully realize that my letter is more upbeat than my contributions on the thread. But, as we all know, this is a really hard subject to discuss. I made the decision to be frank as opposed to PC because I felt that the subject deserves honesty over general acceptability. I get the idea that most of you agree, although it remains a potentially cumbersome subject nonetheless.
Most of the singles I know are just plainly raw about this. The active singles are unable to enjoy church without rivulets of acrid irony trickling in every week. The inactive ones cannot escape their many hard emotions and cannot fully enjoy the new life they left the Church to pursue. Too much of their essence was tossed into the dustbin of regret and resentment.
I am pretty sure I need not say this, but (because sex is so often spoken of regarding this peculiar population of a peculiar people ), the singles want so much more than a mere sex life. They want the myriad of forgetful moments that so many are aloud to take for granted; the passing glance honoring the reminiscent crush. The slightest touch. Company. A photo album. A family. They want the rewards their religion promises them and speaks of constantly. They want to obey God’s will foe them. They want the goodwill of their peers at church; to have their mutual respect instead of their pity, suspicion, or resentment.
Our church has done far harder things in its curious and miraculous past. Nauvoo, the Westward. Trek, temples across the planet, etc…. Why should finding a way of getting people together be the impossible dream, the eighth wonder of the world? Why should this be the hill we die on?
Thank you all for your comments. Please add more if you wish. Also, if any of you are within close proximity of any General Authority(ies), please ask them to read both the letter and this thread. We all know what is ridiny on it.
Thanks again. And I wish each of you God’s blessings in life and love. And God bless the Singles of our church .
I forgot one thing that I should have included in my list of suggestions:
6) Stop calling a couple to be advisors for the Single Adult population. SA’s in the Church are at least 30 years old – and often are 50-80. Some have never been married; some are divorced; some are widowed. They are fully adult. They know the Church idealizes marriage; they don’t need to be reminded of that even within their own program for single adults. They can run their own programs and manage their own lives without being made to feel like adolescents who need adult supervision.
Amen, Ray.
Given how short I am, I’m not sure I’m in the camp in favor of solving any “Tall” orders 😉
Well, all of this discussion is really making me appreciate how my wife is a gift of God. There are about 1/97th as many of us as you, after all, and we don’t have the “cosmological” aspects of theology that limit our choices to only dating people within the faith.
I can only say that my mother married outside the faith, and if she hadn’t, I wouldn’t be born to be IN the faith.
So God bless all those looking for their life partner.
I am a retired disc jockey,My dear singles who ever cemented the idea ,mix in your own decade,[rubbish] my experience is put all age groups together,be it dance ,party,social mix,Now what do you want to acheive,Marriage on the run [nonsence],their are those who want company only,some are searching only,you have divorced people,and other groups,Now what is the common denominator, they all need to hug each other reguardless of sexural orentation,you see this in any social gathering [girls dance with girls] what do men do,well they are socially bankrupt let them [hug or dance] together you will note the [abhorence], who generates this,it is made up by narrow thinking people We all loved each other till someone distorts scripture ,and violates a persons choice or concience,the result is seperation of ,sexes ,decades,a twenty+ can go with older ages where did the idea of [going within your own age groupe] come from; In the pre 1960s familys danced with famlyies including strangers and marriages came after one year courtship,the contact dancing is the best way people will relate to each other [moral] is not a thing to trifel with, people sort themselves out , and if you brand name, [you generate ]same gender selection I have watched this over many years we need to get acustomed to being together; And use common sence not segrgation, Singles will get a lot Older while [Meet Market Socials] Continue, who wants junk socials anyway [I sometimes wonder how much adultry is generated by Loose Moral Mormans] mixing with [genuine singles] who were slack in their Marriage [this bothers me] BE WILDERED SINGLE.
Well that ended well…. with a mighty “KA!-blah.”
Glass Ceiling — hope all is going well for you now.
Stephen,
Thank you. I’m doing well enough. Some health issue are a current project (my back ), but that’s nothing new.
The singles situation in my part of the world is just like it was when I wrote the OP. Oh well.
How are you?
We are doing well. Our oldest surviving child is getting married in August. We are excited.
The youngest, who has Tourette’s, starts a special school this fall.
I continue to work, as does Win. But life is pleasant this week, no more than the usual problems.
Stephen,
Sounds like you have a good attitude whatever comes. I’m glad to hear about the upcoming wedding. 🙂
I am almost 32 and live in southern Utah. I was discarded by my husband after five years of marriage (not in the temple) so that he could almost one year later marry a 22 year old in the temple. I have been inactive ever since. I go to the local “family wards” and feel uncomfortable and out of place. All the women always ask me how long I’ve been married and how many kids I have. As so as I say I am divorced and don’t have any children I hear crickets, see the eyes of the person talking to me glaze over and they move on to someone who is married with kids that has “more to offer” than me. At least that’s what it feels like. They have just got enough people in my area to start a YSA ward, but I’m 32 and I am not welcome there. Not that I would want to socialize with a bunch of teenagers anyhow. And apparently I am the only over thirty single in my town because there is no mid singles ward to be found. As such, the last two and a half years I haven’t been active at all. I got a letter asking to verify my name and birthdate because my records are sitting on someone’s desk with no home to belong to and a really big part of me wants to send them a letter and tell them to remove them from the church records altogether because I don’t belong here anyway. It hurts my heart to think of spending the rest of my life alone but I don’t really have any other options. I come into contact with exactly ZERO single men every day because I live in an area that expects everyone to get married and start a family young. I am the “plague” of the Mormon church and I have no place in their world. I fight depression every day. Sometimes I think if my only chance at having a happy marriage is in the NEXT world then I might as well speed up the process and get to that “next” world quicker. Because I don’t want to love one more moment of this lonely life I have now. All of my close girl friends are married with kids. We will get together every six months or so and that is the extent of my so social life. I have no hope.
Mikala,
I feel your pain. I don’t have time at this second to give you the quality of response that you deserve. But I want to get back with you as soon as I can.
Mikala,
I’m writing this with my thumbs, so please bear with me.
Thank you for writing on this blog. As sad as it is to say, I’m validated by your story. It reminds me that I’m not crazy, and that I am not blowing the thing out of proportion. And that I am not alone.
There are many if us…most of us inactive, I’m afraid.
The thing is, I really believe the Gospel to be true, no matter what is going in with the singles program. I truly believe that we are experiencing growing pains, and that it has to get better eventually.
Will I be married in this life to a member of the Church in this life? I really don’t know. I’ve tried the inactive thing. But it never worked for me.
So, instead I have found it easier to hold on, come what may. I had to push the envelope of my free agency for several years…living very worldly and miserably. But I came back, injured and empty …but willing to submit to whatever was in store to know God.
I’m still unhappy, but not miserable. Not hopeless. I love God and I know God loves me. That may be what this life offers me. I hope for love again, but I don’t depend on it anymore. I don’t count in it.
Maybe some would say that I am pathetic for not selling put to a non-temple marriage. I have had many chances at that. But I just haven’t been able to bring myself to do it. It would seem hollow to me to have to explain to my wife why I wanna go to Church every Sunday, and whatever else.
It’s interesting. I was pretty. I was pretty bitter when I submitted this post a year -and-a-half ago. I’d be lieing if I said that I wasn’t a bit ashamed of some of my ire from back then, as I return tonight to this post.
OTOH, most of me is glad that this post was done. I had a lot more anger in me then. I am happy to return to it less angry than I was.
Do I still believe that the singles program need an overhaul? Absolutely. Am I more at peace than angry? Absolutely.
The Gospel is true. And I am glad to be a part of it, single or married. I know now that I had to pray my way put of my bitterness. I recommend that to anyone who suffers from singledom in the Church. There is no easy way. But there is a way.
Mikala
I totally understand. I’m not divorced but am 32 and single. Every time someone in the ward comes up to me and asks about my husband and kids I get the same blank look before they walk away and never talk to me again. Every meeting is directed towards raising family, caring for your spouse, and the disappointment off woman “putting careers before family”. Somehow I’m the bad guy for having a career and not having men interested in me because of my ambition.
TL,
I’m so glad you brought up the lessons that only apply to those worthy enough to be married lol I have sat through more than my fair share of lessons about nurturing your marriage, raising kids etc, etc. when my mother was teaching RS lessons I would go to her ward every six weeks and it would usually end up with me driving home in tears because its too hard to go and listen to lessons that don’t apply to you at all. Activities planned around the interests of married women with kids, or singles aged 18-22 who are planning weddings. I must sound so bitter, and I guess I am, but all those things just remind me of what I don’t have, and never got from the good little return missionary every thought was so great. Ugh. I’m so glad that I have managed to stay under the radar and that I don’t have them knocking on my door every day harassing me. Lol
I get it. Our church has a long ways to go with this. Sometimes, I feel like Mormon marriages would be better served if our lessons were more often about the life of Jesus and his teachings on both continents than about eternal marriage and how to keep it.
And that still has very little to do with the fact that big changes need to be made in the singles program.
Here’s a solution: get rid of the age limits on YSA wards and refer to them as “singles” wards and make them available to all single adults of any age. Problem solved.