About a week ago I had a dream that I was in the Creationism museum. I’m sure this was inspired in part by the Buzzfeed articles about that dubious family-friendly recreational activity. In the dream, I got separated from my family, and I was struggling to find my kids. I kept passing anti-scientific exhibits and dioramas with mannequin Adam and Eve riding dinosaurs and high fiving penguins. I was worried that my kids would think we as Mormons believe this nonsense, that we are backwards and uneducated, that Mormons are young earth creationists (as they have unfortunately heard at times in seminary or church classes).
As a parent invested in my kids learning to love the gospel as I did growing up, our association with groups whose beliefs on these matters so greatly differ from reality really scare me. As I walked through the museum (in the dream) I was increasingly unsettled at the idea that I had apparently paid admission to this exhibit which meant that it was more likely to remain in business. I had supported it! I panicked thinking that I needed to protect my kids from thinking we agreed with this claptrap.
Frankly, much to my dismay, this dream is at times not too far off the mark from what they’ve experienced in church. As a church, we experience (as do many churches) conservative scope creep, and it’s exacerbated by our affiliation with other conservative religions. A recent Salt Lake Tribune article describes the difficulties faced by political minorities (anyone left of the GOP) in their local congregations and a caution for wards to stay politically neutral.
A recent article from the Mormon Newsroom talked about interfaith work we have done. The article quotes Jana Reiss as mentioning that these interfaith relationships are often with “strange, strange bedfellows” and sects with whom we have an ambiguous or even unfriendly past, although the article was quick to dismiss this concern. This reminded me of a post I did in 2009, that I now revisit for discussion. I speak as a voice from the dust (well, from 2009 anyway).
In that post, I identified several groups that were dubious allies or “strange bedfellows” for the church in recent history:
- Prop 8 Allies. Many of these are the same guys who think we are a cult, want to “pray the gay away,” make hateful and inaccurate remarks about homosexuals, slander our doctrines to win political campaigns and to frighten their parishioners from defecting.
- Focus on the Family. This is James Dobson’s ministry to protect families. But they also support school sponsored prayer, corporal punishment, abortion intervention, and intelligent design. Additionally, they are far more politically involved in their causes than we are, and many of their causes are ones on which we have no clear stance or don’t go as far as they do (see the aforementioned items: we don’t have a stance on school sponsored prayer, we caution against actions like corporal punishment at least within the family, our abortion stance is softer than theirs, and we teach evolution at BYU).
- Feature Films for Family. Enterprises like this take a nice idea (clean entertainment that is family friendly) as a starting point. Often they lack the talent and resources to make it high quality or a good value.
- Clean Flicks. This UT-based company that catered to the LDS crowd by removing objectionable movie content was more of a benevolently-viewed off-shoot, but they were certainly viewed as associated with Mormons if not outright endorsed. Hollywood didn’t like being edited by do-gooders and sued them over it (frankly these people don’t like to be edited by anyone! have you ever seen a Director’s Cut or listened to the director’s commentary?); Clean Flicks discontinued. Then the owner was implicated in an unsavory pornography scam in Utah County. In our lovely deseret.
- Stockpiling WingNuts. There’s clearly a distinction between the reasonable counsel to be prepared for emergencies and layoffs by keeping a supply of food and money on hand and the wingnuts who are building a bunker in the backyard with a stockpile of weapons in case they have to kill and eat their neighbors. There are some supposedly “like-minded” individuals out there wearing tin foil hats and selling 72 hour emergency kits to church members. Since I wrote this caution we had yet another example in Cliven Bundy whose membership remained intact despite his kookoo-for-cocoa-puffs-nuttery at exactly the same time whip-smart Kate Kelly was getting the heave-ho. That’s like kicking your wife out of bed and replacing her with Ted Kazinsky.
- “Obamanation” Armageddon Theorists. This is an unpleasant blend of political conservativism and Rapture-mongering (the idea that we can bring the second coming on despite the statements that say “no man knows the hour.”) Can’t we disagree politically without resorting to religious fear-mongering? Apparently not as evidenced by many Mormons on Facebook.
Since 2009, there have been several other things done by our supposed allies. Evangelicals touted their Purity Balls as a rite of passage to complement their frequently backfiring chastity pledges, and wives were asked to very openly submit to their husbands’ authority in all things. Yes, there is one group out there that hates women more than we do, and it’s no coincidence that they are our interfaith allies.
While alliances are probably necessary to getting things done, there are some real downsides. The old adage would say “Lie down with dogs, get fleas.” But here are some cautions we need to consider whenever we do interfaith work or form alliances:
- Association. Having our views misunderstood or misconstrued by outsiders. Also, when an “ally” does something really stupid (many have), does that taint us by association in the eyes of potential converts?
- Introduction of False Doctrine. What’s worse than others misunderstanding us? Our own people conflating our doctrines with those of our political allies. For example, do some members begin to think that we have a different or stronger stance on issues because our associates do? Do they think we are young earth creationists, that we scoff at science, that we are biblical literalists, that we believe women should be subjects to their husbands? Or perhaps more insidiously, do we just downplay our unique doctrines to fit in? Do we pretend there is no Heavenly Mother or that we don’t believe we are God’s literal offspring with divine potential?
- Motivation. While our alliances might coincide, often our motives are quite different below the surface from those of our allies. When those motives differ, our actions are likely to differ as well as our desired outcomes. Isn’t it also likely that we might be used to achieve ends with which we ultimately disagree, ends that are against our interest.
- Conflict of Interest. Once an alliance is formed, it’s much harder to separate our interests where they naturally diverge. There may be pressure by virtue of the relationship to allow our allies greater latitude for things we might otherwise have taken a stance against.
So, what other strange bedfellows are out there? How do we avoid “the appearance of evil” by associating with those who share a passing interest, but in reality have aims that are far different from our own? Is this an inevitable problem, or are there ways to more clearly distance ourselves from allies whose agendas differ or even contradict ours on many points?
Discuss.
Wheat & Tares 
How Mormon Leaders Built The John Birch Society (and gave Joe McCarthy his start)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/10/28/1151495/-How-Mormon-Leaders-Built-the-John-Birch-Society
“The reality is that the Church has been working with other faiths for many, many years on a variety of issues. For nearly three decades the Church has partnered with Catholics and other faiths to provide humanitarian aid worldwide.”
That is from the Newsroom piece you referred to. Three decades may be “many, many years,” but the reality is that until about that time the Church considered all other religions the apostate other. The Church didn’t partner with other religions, they didn’t join interfaith associations. We were the beacon on the hill, and we didn’t compromise our position by joining, in anyway, with those man-made religions.
These associations are embarrassing for liberal Mormons, but for conservative Mormons by and large, these are natural fits with our beliefs. The problem, if there is one, is not associations, but rather our own extremist views as a church. The “pray the gay away” sentiment seems alive even in the quorum of the 12, though a more moderate coalition seems to have managed to take over the latest correlated offerings on homosexuality.
Elder Nelson, a doctor no-less, openly mocks evolution in conference. We should open up our own creationist museum in SLC since it reflects the beliefs of most of our members.
I for one am content to define myself as a “liberal Mormon” whenever I introduce my beliefs, so people know that I differ from the majority of Mormons in their conservative approach. I think liberal Mormons should seek to distinguish themselves as a peculiar minority within the church, rather than trying to get the majority to adopt their beliefs. We must be OK with Elder Nelson mocking evolution. He is an apostle after all. We respect his opinion and belief and the authority he has to preach it.
Ezra Taft Benson wrote the foreword to The Black Hammer – A Study of Black Power, Red Influence and White Alternatives</a, a book by Wes Andrews and Clyde Dalton. In the foreword, Benson alleges that the civil-rights movement is a communist plot for revolution in America.
Ezra Taft Benson and Politics</a is an interesting history of ETB's attempt to take the church in a radically conservative direction.
I think the paranoid right should be considered strange bedfellows with the church although it often isn't when fear is elevated above love and faith promotion above truth.
Nate: “The problem, if there is one, is not associations, but rather our own extremist views as a church.” I think this is a chicken and egg question, though. Growing up, the church was absolutely not this extremist. It has become so more and more since the 1980s. I can’t say what Utah was like, not having set foot there until the 80s, but elsewhere, the church was not so political. Society in general was not.
Opps, I hope this is better!
Ezra Taft Benson wrote the foreword to The Black Hammer – A Study of Black Power, Red Influence and White Alternatives a, a book by Wes Andrews and Clyde Dalton. In the foreword, Benson alleges that the civil-rights movement is a communist plot for revolution in America.
Ezra Taft Benson and Politics is an interesting history of ETB’s attempt to take the church in a radically conservative direction.
I think the paranoid right should be considered strange bedfellows with the church although it often isn’t when fear is elevated above love and faith promotion above truth.
We must be OK with Elder Nelson mocking…He is an apostle… This is a mobot mindset, it’s dangerous to the church, to your autonomy and to your salvation.
Hawk,
Although it may be an embarrassment to the liberal members, most of the items you listed (albeit some to the extreme) are currently taught by the Apostles and Prophet and are basically good things we should be promoting:
It was President Monson that led the Prop 8 Movement. Clearly, we need to be sensitive of those that struggle with same gender attraction and treat them with love and kindness, but what is wrong with standing up for traditional marriage;
The law of chastity (a good thing) is taught with numerous references to avoid ‘objectionable movie content’. Also, we are encouraged as members to engage in uplifting media. I think the better option is to not view a movie that requires editing. There are plenty of uplifting choices and the more we support them, the more they will be produced;
Stockpiling/hoarding versus food storage is a fine line. I think it is common sense to have an adequate supply of food, water, fuel and money. Likewise, I think it makes good sense to have a weapon in the event I need to protect my family;
As for Obama, I think you just need to look at his record. He is by far the worst president we have ever had – debt has skyrocketed; foreign policy is a complete mess ; and the southern border is the worst it has ever been. According to the last poll, 78 percent of Americans fell less safe than they did 6 years ago. The real unemployment rate (after accounting for the people quit looking) is it’s highest since 1979; job growth is stagnant and his staple ‘accomplishment’ health care is a complete disaster, and it hasn’t completely rolled out. You don’t need to be a dooms-dayer, you just need to look at the record.
It’s not possible for any group to align with you 100%. If it was, they’d -be- you. This is as reactionary as those who are against gay marriage quoting activists that openly say they want to destroy marriage, or refusing to listen to some classical music because the composer had numerous affairs.
When Jesus told his disciples to leave alone the person who was healing, no mention was made of other faults this person may have. Accepting the good does not mean embracing the bad. We should be grateful for the help others have given in building the Kingdom of God, even if it is not their intention to do so.
I think, frankly, that our reference for what we do and who we ally with should be based on truth, and not on political preference in either direction. I don’t think it’s hard, for example, for us to coordinate international relief through Catholic Charities and still avoid having the world think all of our priests are celibate or that we report to the Pope. If there’s advantage to the Church to be gained from allying with James Dobson for some initiatives, let’s go – if not, why bother?
One of the nice things about the Church is the lack of a firm party line on so many issues, no matter what impression may be given by people in Utah wards, like YEC and evolution. Frankly, no one outside the conspiracy-minded end of the church connects Mormons with Birchers. We tend to exaggerate our own importance a little bit.
Frank, that’s a much more eloquent way of saying what I thought when I read, “We must be OK with Elder Nelson mocking evolution. He is an apostle after all. We respect his opinion and belief and the authority he has to preach it.”
My initial reaction was, “I respect his right to those opinions and beliefs, and I acknowledge his authority to preach the gospel. But I in now way acknowledge any authority on his part to preach anti-evolutionsim*.”
Ken: “we need to be sensitive of those that struggle with same gender attraction and treat them with love and kindness, but what is wrong with standing up for traditional marriage” Funny you should mention that. I have a post going up on BCC tomorrow about this very topic. The real problem is that “traditional” marriage isn’t all that traditional. Once we started equating marriage with love & consent, fairly recently in fact (dates to about Jane Austen’s day), the horse was out of the barn for gay marriage. When marriage was not for personal happiness, it wasn’t that big a deal to exclude people from it. It was often a social institution that was misery-filled but stabilizing. But that’s another topic for another day. The church’s stance on gay marriage is not unique, but my vote goes another way. I’m not incensed about it, though, and my ward mostly behaves when it comes to being politically neutral.
I am incensed about the anti-science rhetoric, including when it originate at General Conference. It’s embarrassing and faith destroying no matter the source.
Re: Elder Nelson – yes, he IS an apostle, and anyone would do well to listen to what he says in General Conferene. However, his views on evolution are his own, and aren’t binding on the Church (never mind that likely more than 85% of the ‘active’ are in lockstep with it).
Prop 8 “Allies”: Some were and continue to be an embarrassment, just as most gays roll their eyes with disdain at the “Man-Boy-Love” lunatics. We have extremists and whack jobs in both camps. Having common cause on Prop 8 with Catholics doesn’t mean that we call the Bishop of Rome the “Holy Father”, or likewise allying with Orthodox Jews doesn’t mean we deny that their Messiash has already come. Working with Evangelicals probably left a more positive impression about we members of this “non-Christian Cult”.
Focus on the Family: We LDS have “focused” on our families since April 6, 1830. I wouldn’t agree with their conservative political agenda as in some ways it in effects works to insert their peculiar theology and social mores into the public arena (like the schools), much against the spirit if not the ouright letter of the First Amendment. To the extent that FotF works to ensure freedom to PRIVATELY practice religion (including their own privately-funded schools), I agree with them.
“Clean Films”: If a studio works an agreement to “clean up” a production to suit the “family oriented” tastes typical but not exclusive to Utah LDS, and there’s a market for it, fine. I’d stop short of anything constituting official endorsement from the Church, though.
Stockpiling Wingnuts: Hawk, you’re insulting perfectly fine hardware. I prefer black-anodized, induction-hardened 4140 tool steel. Eat the neighbors? As Jeffrey Jones (himself a pedophile) said in “Ravenous”: “An Army Private SHOULD be tough!”. An in eye of the beholder situation, in most cases. My “Snips” and I scoped out a property recently with a nice feature: The patio is covered well enough that we can saw through the concrete and construct a vault (hiding the lid in a pattern) without fear of overhead surveillance.. For what reason? To hide whatever we wish, be it firearms, gold, jewels, Jews, etc. If Herr Standartenfurher Landa comes sniffing about I want to be able to conceal my Hebrew friends. It’s called foresight.
“Obamination”: This fine country can survive even the likes of him. What I fear is the steady decline of Presidential aspirants since Ronald Reagon. Ever since Bill…Clinton! I have rued the incumbent, saying, “damn you, sir..you’ve caused me to say that your predecessor wasn’t so bad after all!” If one person can send this country down the greased chute to Hades, (s)he has too much power. Thus far, the Constitution has done its job, and even FDR showed us the danger of when a President becomes almost for all practical purposes a King, then Congress and the President’s political opponents (Robert Taft and the Republican party) step in and amend said Constitution (#22). IDK what they were worried about at the time..if the polio wouldn’t get him, either Elanor or one of his mistresses would (some believe that Elanor slowly poisoned him after she’d discovered that he’d resumed his affair with Lucy Mercer Rutherford, but many others had opportunity and motive).
I wouldn’t lose any sleep over coflation of other religious and/or conservative groups with the Church itself or LDS people. The Church is sufficient to speak for itself and where distinction is needed between it and, say, Dr. Dobson’s organization. As for individual members, it’s usually based on a one-on-one relationship anyway. Someone with your demonstrated verbosity has little trouble establishing with people in your circles as to where LDS doctrine ends and your individual viewpoints begin. Most critics that employ guilt by association have little interest in the truth anyway.
Maybe it’s just me. I don’t get incensed when the church teaches things I think are wrong. Rather, I smile. It’s certainly a kind of pride, maybe very dangerous and unhealthy. I look with liberal indulgence upon my conservative leaders. But maybe it’s still looking down upon them. Maybe it’s healthier to have Hawkgrrrl’s attitude, to get incensed when there is something you think you know is dead wrong. That’s not pride, that’s a desire for unity of faith honestly acting within your heart.
Hawk,
I know a lot of Gay people, some very close to home. I don’t fully understand why they have this attraction, but I know that they do. I love these people that I know. Perhaps some of the best living people that I know in terms of how they treat others. In spite of this, I believe the traditional marriage model is the only one endorsed in the eternities. This is my faith. This is what I believe and I should be able to worship God according to the dictates of my own conscience. Some that disagree with me on this issue are much like ISIL — you will believe what I believe or else.
I don’t know what you mean by anti-science as it relates to the church. The creation is not anti-science for instance. Neither is the flood. Please explain.
What’s anti-science? Creation is not, creationism is. The Bible is not, Biblical literalism is. Mocking the Big Bang Theory in GC for laughs is anti-science. When my kids go to seminary and are told by their teacher that the earth is 6000 years old, that’s anti-science.
As a young person, I often fail to appreciate how the church has not been the same it has always been. For example, my understanding of the church has been that it has *always* been very socially conservative (and indeed, my understanding of religions in general is that they are socially conservative.)
So, I am heartened to read articles that point out that the dominating political perspectives of the church these days are not necessarily essential to doctrine and theology, but a recent result of political alignments. Especially since there are many folks today who are fully convinced that the status quo political perspectives of the church are fundamentally doctrinal.
In particular, I like Hawkgrrrl’s responses from comment 5 and comment 12.
I have seen similar analyses on evangelical issues blogs about say, the shift in the evangelical position on abortion, where decades ago, it simply *wasn’t* an issue.
Ken @ 14:
No. Just no. You just compared supporters of marriage with people who are chopping people’s heads off. As such, you have now forfeited your right to ever complain about your political opponents not being civil. Even with your weasel word “some,” unless you can name one gay marriage supporter who has cut off the head of their opponent for disagreeing with them, you still have zero justification for saying this. If you truly have gay people that are close to you and that you “love,” how can you square that with saying such truly vile things about people who more than likely believe the same things they do?
Ken (14), you say that your testimony is that your definition of ” traditional” marriage is the one endorsed in the eternities. I don’t understand how allowing people to have gay temporal marriages prevents you from maintaining and acting upon that conviction in your personal life. If you are right, then those gay marriages will turn out to be worthless eternally and you can feel good knowing that your marriage is bona fide. Nobody is going to force you to get deviate from the dicatate of your own conscience by entering into a same-sex marraige.
Otto,
I fully subscribe to the entire article of faith which includes ‘and allow others to worship how, where or what they may’. If others believe in same gender marriage, let them worship according to their conscience.
Nate W,
Relax.
True, it is absurd to compare a toddler stealing a crayon to a bank heist. I am simply saying ‘some’ in the marriage equality crowd will not allow others to worship God according to the dictates of their conscience. Like ISIL, they will use intimidation, public shame and constant pressure to FORCE others to worship God according to the way they think they should.
“When my kids go to seminary and are told by their teacher that the earth is 6000 years old, that’s anti-science.”
A good opportunity for your kids to school their teacher.
@ Howard: Has John Birch Society turned into Freedom First Society? Or is that an offshoot? I believe it’s also run by someone who is LDS, and seems also to be a bedfellow of the church…
Freedom First Society also appears to align with the political and social goals and ideals of the church. From what I can tell, it would give the church a pretty negative image by the average person. My FIL is involved and seems to be all about these conspiracy theories and ‘action reports’, etc. It’s freaking me out!
Also ticked off about anti-science rhetoric, as are my kids. The problem is too many people here regard ‘Mormon Doctrine’ as exactly that. Her last sacrament meeting talk, on the YW value knowledge, my daughter gave a pro-science talk, quoting Henry Eyring and James Talmage.
I gather there was a relatively pro-science fireside recently, which I didn’t attend because the advertising offered no clue as to the views to be presented, and I couldn’t stomach the possibility of sitting through an anti-evolution rant. I’ve yet to discover how far it went in acceptance of evolution though. I hear it’s to be repeated some time, so I might go along then. It was a presentation with no discussion though. I’m not sure I could not say anything.
Ken, with you continuuing to defend your insane isil comment, i can conclude you are a moron. Only moron would defend such a barbaric statement. Anyone with half a brain would never have made such a ridiculous comparison. Someone with a quarter of a brain would apologize profuselessly, and retract the statement.
KT,
Freedom First Society was launched in 2007 by Former John Birch Society Executives. At least one of them is rumored to be LDS. They will be be using modern technology — particularly the internet — to reach out to and involve a younger age group (sound familiar?).
They are trying to hold LDS “fireside” like meetings to share the message.
The Freedom First Society website pays homage to Robert Welch, founder of the John Birch Society in 1958. The thrust of Smith’s presentation was that this nation is under attack from “insiders” with power and influence who are trying to destroy our democratic republic. He spent a lot of time attacking the Council on Foreign Relations or CFR which was founded in 1921 and Smith called the group “the masters of deception.”
Smith pointed out that former presidents, George H.W. Bush and Bill Clinton were both members of the CFR as was vice president Dick Chaney and former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. He said many members of U.S. Congress and corporate leaders in America also belong to this organization.
So they apparently oppose the CFR because of the Neocon addenda.
“As for Obama, I think you just need to look at his record. He is by far the worst president we have ever had – debt has skyrocketed;”
Ken, sorry to pile on but dude, the debt’s gone down.
GB, you’re making a common error – confusing debt with deficit. The deficit has gone down slightly in the last few years. The debt has not; it continues to mount and recently passed $17 trillion. With a T.
The deficit is the amount you overdraw your checkbook each year. We’re still not breaking even (or anything like unto it), but we’re overspending a little less each year since about 2010. The debt, on the other hand, is your total credit card balance, the cumulative effect of years of deficit spending: it continues to mount, and in fact cannot decrease until we start running a surplus instead of a deficit. According to the Treasury Department, the debt has more than tripled since the end of FY2000.
Politics aside, the only way to reverse the trend is to cut spending. Realistically, no possible tax increase is going to close an annual deficit of about $700 billion and then start to whittle down the debt. The last non-deficit (“balanced budget” or “surplus”) years we had were 1999 and 2000, and the positive figures were pretty low compared to the deficits which preceded and followed.
Ken has it right. Immoral cowardly describes obama just right
As ticked off as I get about the anti-science rhetoric, I have to admit it’s a good introduction for teens that church members can fundamentally disagree with one another and still be “good” members of the church. Defending evolution was the reason I got kicked out of my Sunday School class once as a teenager, and it was probably one of the best learning experiences with my parents teaching me that what some people considered doctrine was simply opinion. I only had one BYU religion professor who railed against the apostate science professors teaching evolution, but by that point I was in my senior year as an archaeology major, so I could just roll my eyes.
Ken: “A good opportunity for your kids to school their teacher.” As they did, although the problem is that she said what she said to the whole class. My son corrected her in private. She said she didn’t really understand any of that science stuff and sort of retracted to him privately, but her public statements were still left out there hanging. And so he can either call her out publicly which will be seen as disrespectful and certainly not the Mormon way, or we continue to foster these wrong ideas without any corrective retraction.
Thanks, New Iconoclast, my mistake. The deficit is now half it was in 2010, not the debt. The debt is up from 10 to 16 trillion since 2008, just about 60% increase. It doubled from 2000 to 2008. And now to our regular programming.
#16,30 – Hawk, Evolutionists can be just as dogmatic about evolution explaining the origins of life on Earth and of man. “Science” is as much about the ability to get published and/or funded (“publish or perish”) as it is proof. Still, “creationists” have one fundamental flaw in their approach to attempts to prove it as scientifically supportable: they’ve already drawn their conclusion and attempt to find evidence to support it. As for myself, though I certainly believe the first chapter of Genesis, I think it foolish to presuppose a particular methodology or timeframe. That is, assuming that it was indeed Moses that “wrote” this first book of the Pentatuch (more likely if he did at all it was a series of oral discourses later compiled by scribes) that the intention was to describe the relation of Heavenly Father to the Earth and the life on it, especially Man, and not necessarily be a treatise on astronomy, biology, or geology..hence the use of allegory. I employ FAITH that the Genesis account is truthful and correct, I feel no need to look to “Science” (I keep thinking of the old ‘doctor’ from the Thomas Dolby video of many years ago) to furnish supporting evidence, nor do any spurious claims that typically contradict Archbishop Usher’s chronology only put my knickers in a twist.
BYU has an excellent paleontology department with a wonderful little museum across the street from the football stadium, so obviuosly BYU as an institution accepts evolution.
Nonetheless I also was priviledge to listen to a friend of mine give an anti-evolution talk at the request of our Bishop (ouch).
If Elder Nelson is anti-evolution and most Mormons follow that and are obvously wrong it is not enough to say “that is Elder Nelson’s opinion”. The church leaders could easily correct the situation and they should, by making it clear that the Earth is probably about 4.5 billion years old and that “Evolution through Natural Selection” is how life on earth came about.
This area of controversy is just one place in which charismatic evangelicals have had a bad influence on church members.
As my Hispanic wife would say: “No puedes tapar el sol con un dedo” (you can’t cover the sun with a finger). The dissonance cannot be resolved by saying that is just Elder Nelson’s opinion since Elder Nelson is obviously wrong.
Failed attempts to “cover the sun with a finger” in many areas have lead to the current apostasy of so many young people. It is far past time to be more up front about things; unfortunately most church publications are less and less so all the correlated time.