What’s an Apostle? – Saturday Poll

By: wheatmeister
April 21, 2012

Have the current twelve apostles seen Jesus?

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31 Responses to What’s an Apostle? – Saturday Poll

  1. Bob on April 21, 2012 at 4:04 PM

    There can’t be a ‘rule’ that says you can’t say you have seen Jesus because many have made that statement. I don’t know the name of (if any) apostle who says he has seen Him, at least not lately.

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  2. Syphax on April 21, 2012 at 5:43 PM

    This is an interesting poll, and it brings up my own thoughts concerning the matter. When an Apostle “specially” witnesses that Christ lives, how is that different than my witness?

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  3. NewlyHousewife on April 21, 2012 at 8:01 PM

    Until they’ve said it, I go on the side of ‘No’ simply because I don’t know anyone that would want to give the idea of seeing Jesus without actually seeing Jesus.

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  4. wonderdog on April 22, 2012 at 5:31 AM

    Joseph Smith adminished the first 12 in this dispensation to become special witnesses by actually seeing the Lord in this life. But isn’t that what we’re all striving for?

    If they haven’t, I think it is their obligation to do so.

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  5. whizzbang on April 22, 2012 at 6:31 AM

    I think that unless the any of the current Twelve have said specifically that they haven’t seen Jesus then we can? assume they have or not but we can’t say for sure unless they have said anything

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  6. Cowboy on April 22, 2012 at 9:12 AM

    My bet is on, no, none of them have.

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  7. Larrin on April 22, 2012 at 2:56 PM

    Heber J. Grant said he had never seen Jesus Christ. “A Remarkable Manifestation.” Improvement Era, 22 (Dec. 1918):97-99

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  8. whizzbang on April 22, 2012 at 3:49 PM

    @7-would he have said that in 1945 when he died? as in is their evidence of him saying anything from 1918-1945 about him saying he saw Christ. Also just because someone doesn’t give the source of how they know that Jesus is the Christ doesn’t mean they haven’t seen Christ or even has seen him, we just don’t know

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  9. Bob on April 22, 2012 at 4:35 PM

    #8:whizzbang,
    During my long life time, I know of no GA who states he have seen Christ. I have seen many who ‘wink’ they have. Why will they not say if they have?
    If they remain silent, I would have to say no, they have not seen him.

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  10. whizzbang on April 22, 2012 at 4:51 PM

    @9-I know that Hugh B. Brown, George F. Richards, David B. Haight among others are on record as saying they have seen Christ

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  11. Bob on April 22, 2012 at 6:29 PM

    #10:whizzbang,
    I would like to see the quote from Hugh B. Brown. It just does not sound like anything I heard him say.

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  12. whizzbang on April 22, 2012 at 6:43 PM

    @11-it’s from “The memoirs of Hugh B. Brown: An Abundant Life” pg, 145. There is another account of him (which could be an expanded version of this version I don’t know) but of him at the Washington DC Temple groundbreaking or Dedication of him seeing Jesus and HBB asking him when he would die and Jesus said something to the effect that if he knew he wouldn’t tell him!

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  13. whizzbang on April 22, 2012 at 6:52 PM

    @11-This is what i was looking for but as I say I don’t know if the two are the same account or not but my guess is they are two different.
    http://home.comcast.net/~mevans41/greaterthings/tschbb.html

    Hugh B. Brown, who had served as President McKay’s first counselor, resumed his seat as an apostle. A few months later he would confide in his nephew, N. Eldon Tanner, that he missed the intense involvement of the First Presidency. In failing health, he could attend meetings of the Twelve only infrequently, so Eldon became one of his few regular contacts with General Authorities. Following one visit, President Tanner wrote in his diary, “I am sure it is difficult to adjust after being in the First Presidency.” He added an experience related by his uncle that had helped President Brown adjust to these years of declining responsibility.

    “He said it was not a vision, but the Lord appeared to him, very informal, the same as I was sitting talking to him. The Lord said, ‘You have had some difficult times in your life.’ Uncle Hugh responded, ‘Yes, and your life was more difficult than any of us have had.’ In the conversation Uncle Hugh asked when he would be finished here, and the Lord said, ‘I don’t know and I wouldn’t tell you if I did.’ Then He said, ‘Remain faithful to the end, and everything will be all right.’”

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  14. Bob on April 22, 2012 at 7:24 PM

    #13:whizzbang,
    I have the highest regards for both Elder Brown and Elder Tanner. I will accept the conversation a stated by Elder Tanner. Thank you.

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  15. Niklas on April 23, 2012 at 1:54 AM

    I think that what makes apostles _special_ witnesses is that they are witnesses to the whole world.
    If all or any of them have seen Christ, I do not know.

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  16. Geoff-A on April 23, 2012 at 4:22 AM

    As a diversion. I was impressed with how old many of the apostles are. Also thought the most inspiring speaker was Elder Uchtdorf.

    Putting these together how would one communicate to the prophet that you would like to see a change to the succession so we can have Uchtdorf as next president.

    I think it would transform the church to have someone under 75 as president especially him. If we wait for succession he will be 85+

    Do we have an email address for the presidents secritary? or himself.

    How would you start a campaign to make someone considder this.

    Uchtdorf for President!

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  17. Syphax on April 23, 2012 at 2:50 PM

    #15. Which part of the world is my witness closed off to? Are there any places where I am not allowed to bear my witness of Christ?

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  18. Bob on April 23, 2012 at 3:30 PM

    #17:Syphax,
    “Are there any places where I am not allowed to bear my witness of Christ”?
    ‘allowed’ may not be the word. Not welcome__Yes. There are many places you are not welcome to openly witness Christ.

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  19. Syphax on April 23, 2012 at 3:44 PM

    Hmm, I can’t tell if you’re being intentionally obscure or if I’m just not getting what you’re saying. If you’re talking about places like Saudi Arabia or China, well, nobody is welcome to openly preach of Christ there, LDS apostles included.

    If you’re talking about the fact that I can’t just walk into any ward building in the world and stand up and preach about Christ. Well that’s not really true, is it? They all have testimony meetings. I’m still trying to figure out what the concrete difference between an Apostle’s witness of Christ and mine is. I think what you’re saying is that the witness is the same; the “specialness” is simply a matter of jurisdiction? I guess I understand what you’re saying and I agree for the most part. But it still leads me to think there is a qualitative difference between that and the Original 12 Apostles’ witness. I could be wrong though.

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  20. Toni on April 23, 2012 at 9:05 PM

    It was Oliver Cowdery, not Joseph Smith who gave the charge to the twelve. He said:

    You have been indebted to other men, in the first instance, for evidence; on that you have acted; but it is necessary that you receive a testimony from heaven for yourselves; so that you can bear testimony to the truth of the Book of Mormon, and that you have seen the face of God. That is more than the testimony of an angel. When the proper time arrives, you shall be able to bear this testimony to the world. When you bear testimony that you have seen God, this testimony God will never suffer to fall, but will bear you out; although many will not give heed, yet others will. You will therefore see the necessity of getting this testimony from heaven. . . . Your ordination is not full till God has laid His hand upon you.
    See History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Volume 2, pages 195-196

    Notice that they were told to bear this testimony to the world. They were to tell the world, “I know God lives, because I have seen Him.” It is a falsehood that it is “too sacred to share.” It would appear that God WANTED the apostles to PLAINLY state “to the world” that they have seen God. God does not change, therefor, the apostles have not seen Him. If they had REALLY seen Him, He would have told them to bear testimony of that fact, because that is why they are “special witnesses.”

    If you were to go to court as a witness and you told the court that you hadn’t actually seen anything, but you had a conviction it was true because other people had seen and you’d read their words, your testimony would be thrown out.

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  21. whizzbang on April 23, 2012 at 10:10 PM

    @20-”God does not change, therefor, the apostles have not seen Him” What do you make of the testimonies from a variety of Apostles that have seen Christ?

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  22. Toni on April 24, 2012 at 8:32 PM

    I was referring to those who had not said they had seen Him.

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  23. hawkgrrrl on April 24, 2012 at 10:29 PM

    Wow, only 2 people have said “Yes.” Yet, as I recall, this was why Paul was accepted as an apostle despite not having met Jesus in his life.

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  24. Niklas on April 25, 2012 at 6:08 AM

    Syphax, you are free to travel the world and preach the gospel as much as you wish. But you’re not expected to do the same than apostles. Full-time missionaries devote lot of time in preaching but they are witnesses in a very limited area. Regular members are expected to be witnesses in small scope. It’s not expected to travel the world, but it’s not prohibited either.

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  25. Anon for this one on April 25, 2012 at 5:00 PM

    Hawkgirl,
    Make that just one “yes” vote. I meant to vote “no” but was using my phone and hit the wrong button. So, one of the yes-votes is actually a very confident (IMHO) no-vote.

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  26. hawkgrrrl on April 25, 2012 at 8:23 PM

    Anon for this one – hilarious!

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  27. Toni on April 25, 2012 at 10:26 PM

    #21, whizzbang,

    My comment should have read more like this: God does not change, therefor, Oliver Cowdery’s charge should still stand. In my opinion, the current apostles have not seen Him. If they had REALLY seen Him, Jesus would have told them to bear testimony of that fact, because that is why they are “special witnesses”.

    I apologize for not making it clear that I had changed from Oliver’s day to ours.

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  28. whizzbang on April 26, 2012 at 12:05 AM

    @27-how do you know God wanted Oliver Cowdery to say that and what if he didn’t and Cowdery was just voicing his opinion like you are yours?

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  29. Toni on April 26, 2012 at 8:05 PM

    @28 whizzbang,
    Good point. I don’t “know”. I believe.

    I do have a tendency to speak my opinions as if they are facts – and I am not alone in this behavior. I see it all over the blogosphere, including on this site. I believe it is a natural inclination of people to think their opinions are facts and that those who have differing opinions are wrong.

    In fact, it seems that most of what we say we “know” is only a belief.

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  30. whizzbang on April 26, 2012 at 8:23 PM

    @29-it’s okay! I go along with that too!

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  31. Rob on March 28, 2013 at 8:34 AM

    I have seen this question a lot. It’s something I looked into a while back. I posted my notes on it: http://upwardthought.blogspot.com/2013/03/have-lds-apostles-seen-jesus-do-they.html

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