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Our Church Uniform
By: hawkgrrrl
Have ye received his image in your wardrobe?
As the military understands very well, there is little to instill unity like a uniform. The word uniform literally means “always the same,” “consistent,” or even “identical.” Doctrine & Covenants 38: 27 says: “I say unto you, be one; and if ye are not one ye are not mine.”
What is our church uniform? It’s mostly an unwritten code to define “Sunday best.” Here are some cultural do’s and don’t's:
Men:
- DO wear: white shirt, tie, dark conservative suit.
- DON’T wear: long hair, visible tattoos, earrings, facial hair, colored shirt, wild tie, khaki pants, anything not conservative, jeans, shorts.
Women
- DO wear: knee length or longer skirts, blouses, jackets, full garment coverage even if not endowed. Some of the older church members (as well as the church office building) include pantyhose in this list.
- DON’T wear: flip flops, pants, anything that shows cleavage, anything above the knee or sleeveless, more than one earring per ear, visible tattoos, shorts, jeans.
Those who flaunt the unwritten Mormon dress code may be greeted with clucking tongues and wagging heads in some wards or a “meh” in others. In any case, some people report feeling judged or even considered unworthy and rebellious for not dressing like everyone else.
I’ve talked a lot about the moral foundations in the last few posts. To refresh your memory, Haidt’s 6 moral foundations are:
- Care / Harm
- Fairness / Cheating
- Liberty / Oppression
- Loyalty / Betrayal
- Authority / Subversion
- Sanctity / Degradation
Why do people feel so strongly about dress and appearance when “the Lord looketh on the heart”? How does morality play into our unwritten dress code? I’ll match up the common justifications for and against dress standards with the corresponding moral foundation and then it’s logical inverse.
Those who are “pro” the unwritten Mormon dress code often use arguments such as:
- Women should be dressed modestly so that men are not distracted. (Care / Harm). Underlying argument: Women who reveal their bodies at church are not being Christlike because they are (wily or unsuspecting) temptresses who harm men.
- Teams wear the team uniform or they don’t get to play. It’s not that hard. (Fairness /Cheating). Underlying argument: Rule breakers are trying to get away with something everyone has agreed to do.
- Dressing alike creates unity. It helps people feel a sense of belonging. (Loyalty / Betrayal). Underlying argument: Asserting your individuality is rejecting the group.
- We’ve been asked to dress this way by leaders and tradition. (Authority / Subversion). Underlying argument: People who don’t dress this way are rebellious and proud. They put their own views above that of church leaders.
- The white shirt is a symbol of purity that enhances the sacrament experience. (Sanctity / Degradation). Underlying argument: If a boy isn’t wearing a white shirt, the boy is not respecting the holiness of the sacrament rite.
Those who are against it often cite reasons such as:
- It’s arbitrary, outdated and oppressive. (Liberty / Oppression). Underlying argument: It tramples personal freedom.
- It doesn’t value individual freedom of expression. (Liberty / Oppression) Underlying argument: Personal freedom is more important than group cohesion.
- Some people can’t afford these clothes. (Care / Harm). Underlying argument: These rules disproportionately hurt the poor.
- It creates outsiders when we should be welcoming new people and investigators. (Care / Harm) Underlying argument: We create an unwelcoming environment for newcomers.
- It teaches people to judge others; it is Pharisaical. (Care / Harm) Underlying argument: People who focus on outward appearance are less spiritual; they harm themselves with this superficial focus.
Interestingly, these arguments fall directly in line with conservative and liberal morality. In other words, if you are conservative politically, you are more likely to see value in our unwritten Mormon dress code. If you are liberal politically, you are more like to see the problems with it.
Discuss.
How’d you arrive at the conclusion in the final paragraph? Did I miss a previous OP where you explained?
I ask because I’m about as “conservative” politically as they come and I hate the unwritten dress code– granted for some of the reasons you state above. For me, a clearer statement regarding my distaste for our dress code is that it sends an inconsistent signal about why I attend church (a bit of the Pharisaical rationale above crossed with the unwelcoming environment).
When in my home ward I generally follow the overarching principles (suit and tie) but individualize my appearance. I rarely wear a white shirt. I wear the latest fashions in suits still appropriate for investment bankers. And I have the best tie collection on the planet (seriously).
When I travel, however, I pretty much dress for church how I dressed for the rest of my trip because I’m not going to cram a suit into a carry-on. If it’s a business or pleasure trip I’ll be in khakis and a polo. If I’m there for a wedding or funeral then I’ll be in a suit. The assumptions people make about my membership status when I visit in a polo and khakis are universal in North America.
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PaulM – there have been quite a few OPs here (many by me, a few by others) referring to the six moral foundations identified by Jonathan Haidt: care/harm, fairness/cheating, liberty/oppression, loyalty/betrayal, authority/subversion, sanctity/degradation. There’s a good description here: http://www.moralfoundations.org/
If you want to take a quiz to see which of these moral foundations are more important to you, check out this site: http://www.yourmorals.org/
According to his research, liberals have very high care/harm and liberty/oppression sensitivity, but have either low correlation or in some cases reverse correlation on the others. Conservatives tend to value all of them somewhat equally. As a result, conservatives see liberals as anarchists and rebels and bleeding hearts. Liberals see conservatives as heartless and hierarchical and oppressive of others’ rights including self-expression.
Hope that helps!
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Love it Hawk! As a man, I absolutely hate the current “dress code” for men. I am one who grew up in the tasteless 70′s, but man, we had some colorful shirts and W..I..D..E ties which was perfectly acceptable to attend church in. In the 1971 New Era there was a classic article about ties, and the graphics showing colorful ties and shirts was great. Unfortunately in the LDS.org archives, you get no actual view of the article and how it was laid out. I also believe that they sanitized it somewhat.
I often wonder why, if white is a symbol of purity and temple covenenants, why don’t women have to wear white dresses/skirts with only a scarf or some other item to give some color? Why men have to dress all corporate because of our priesthoodness, but women don’t have to wear corporate attire seems like it should be equal to me.
Of course I am just kidding about this, but the pharisaical nature of the church just sucks the life out of so much. I for one, am almost never found at church with a white shirt or suit. Last week I wore a new bowtie that my RM son bought me. A nice bow tie really does look sharp. Hard to tie, but classic.
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I had occasion to attend an evangelical Church service in Seattle a while back. The music was soft Christian Rock, the attendees wore jeans and sipped coffee during the service; but the sermon was great and the Spirit was there. That experience helped me realize how silly and shallow some of our ‘rules’ are.
I think we’ve gone way overboard on the dress code at Church. I honestly don’t think the Lord cares what we wear. The color of my shirt has nothing to do with worthiness, faith, or how I treat me fellow man. In the day of judgement, I don’t think my wardrobe is going to be on the list of considerations.
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My feelings about the dress code have evolved over the years. I can’t say that they have settled completely yet. One thing I’m sure about is my opinion that clothing is closely tied to pride in the scriptures and its focus seems to be a gateway sin. It never states whether that clothing is “modest” or not, just that it was costly and was a focus.
My present opinion is that any who spend too much time thinking about clothing may be in danger. Who knows if the rameumptomites were obsessed with certain kinds of clothing and therefore made others feel ostracized? Were they pharisaical or salacious? Either seems prideful to me.
Clothing is a means to an end, and as someone who loves scarves and handmade jewelry, I think about this. I’ve decided in my personal life that if I am limited in what I do by my appearance needing to portray a certain image, that I’m too concerned about my image. So I go to the grocery store and see my friends with my hair wild and my clothes smudged from gardening if that’s what I’m doing. If I’ve been to a business meeting, I’m dressed differently. I wear makeup if I want to and don’t if I don’t. My personal motto is not to wear something if I wouldn’t feel comfortable giving it away.
One of the YW general leaders once said that her mother used to tell her to be very concerned about her appearance when she was getting ready inside the house and to forget completely about it when she left. That seems a nice balance to strike.
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You forgot the explanations that we dress nice to honor God and the way you dress has a direct impact on how you act (I think this last one is complete baloney).
Underlining ideas:
Those who don’t dress nice don’t honor God; and a person’s attire speaks more than their actions/service.
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1. I attended a non-denominational Church awhile back where there were screens and christian rock and people were sipping coffee during, and wearing jeans and sleaveless shirts. I had an epiphany while there…I looked around me and almost started crying as I felt the spirit and love and realized that the LDS way of doing Church was not the one correct way to learn something good or feel the spirit. While sitting there, I thought of the judging that goes on in LDS wards and how that was not taking place in that church and how it seemed so much more christ like and spiritual.
2. I like to buck the rules and I would wear formal pants to Church at least half the time. I will tell you right now that others judged me for it and that by me wearing pants, I seemed to be sending a clear message that I was not one of the “elect” in the ward and so was not worthy of being taken seriously, or given serious callings. And yes, that was the only thing that I was doing to “break the rules.”
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But what is ‘nice’? Are my $250 pair of jeans ‘nicer’ than my $50 dress slacks?
My brother-in-law works for a Fortune 500 company, and they have gone to completely casual clothing. He goes to work as an IT executive in jeans and cowboy boots. Shirts and ties, and ‘formal’ dress are rapidly becoming the exception rather than the norm.
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Just for the record, from what I understand it is in the HBOI that the young men where white shirts and ties. Let me know if I am wrong.
Also, I recently gave up the tie. I’ve never liked ties and on a hot Sunday finally decided to ditch it. It was weird at first but I’ve gotten used to it (probably been a couple months now). I’ve received a comment about it, but no big deal. If I were still working with the young men it probably would have been a bigger deal.
Who ever thought of putting a noose around ones neck should be hanged for the thought.
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Jon – you are wrong. :)
Here’s the exact quote from the HBOI
“Those who bless and pass the sacrament should dress modestly and be well groomed and clean. Clothing or jewelry should not call attention to itself or distract members during the sacrament. Ties and white shirts are RECOMMENDED because they add to the dignity of the ordinance. However, THEY SHOULD NOT BE REQUIRED as a mandatory prerequisite for a priesthood holder to participate. Nor should it be required that all be alike in dress and appearance. Bishops should use discretion when giving such guidance to young men, taking into account their financial circumstances and maturity in the Church.”
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Being in a small town where old ranchers and farmers lived and poorer people, and the culture still continues, people where jeans all the time, and they are most likely conservative. No one cares too much.
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Neal,
Thanks for finding that. So it is in the handbook. Didn’t know the exact wording for it. Nice to know!
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One thing I’m sure about is my opinion that clothing is closely tied to pride in the scriptures and its focus seems to be a gateway sin
I look at people’s reasons for avoiding dress codes and what you said comes to mind. Some fit that comment, some do not.
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Exactly, Stephen.
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“Nor should it be required that all be alike in dress and appearance”. No kidding. The problems they have had with that would be a whole ‘nother essay.
Much of what is going on is about not calling attention to yourself, not some sort of neo dress code.
It is a hard balance.
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Though LDS circles are one of the few where blue dress shirts do not equal white.
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“I look at people’s reasons for avoiding dress codes and what you said comes to mind. Some fit that comment, some do not.”
I think you’re leaving out those who conform to dress codes as a matter of pride or who force others to conform, which I think can be even more destructive. Example – one of my friends has a priest-age son who did not wear a white whirt on a Sunday. The Elder in charge of the sacrament told him he would NOT be participating in the sacrament, specifically because of his shirt. My friend’s son told him “Dad, they care more about my clothes than they do about me.” He has not attended Church since.
Excluding or punishing those who do not ‘conform’ is a greater sin than not conforming in the first place, IMO (if that even IS a sin). I’ve heard horror stories of girls being asked to kneel down on the gymn floor in the middle of a youth dance to see if their dresses touched the floor and were therefore ‘knee length’. These things ought not to be…
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That’s exactly what I’m saying, Neal. Nobody wants the “modesty police” as former Pres. Beck has said. We have better things to do than to call attention to clothing, either by calling attention to ourselves by thumbing our noses at “the system” or by unkindly calling attention to clothing by judging others. A good dose of humility for everyone makes conformity easier for prideful “ark steadiers” of either persuasion.
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I will add one more against-the-dress-code:
It teaches women and girls that they are objects and teaches men and boys that they need women to control their desires for them. Care/Harm.
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And as far as the whole issue goes, I personally think that dress codes applied to religion is a stupid, stupid idea. Apologies for being so blunt. :(
Christ went to the lepers, the prostitutes, the tax collectors. How is it possible that we should even care about such superficialities in the face of that? The gospel has NOTHING whatever to do with how we dress, what we eat, what language we speak, and it makes me so sad to see people being hurt, rejected and excluded, on both sides of the issue because of such trivial things.
Straining at gnats indeed.
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And, for the record, I am as guilty of this as anyone, often dressing to rock the boat and make a point against the established standards, so please, no one feel like I am pointing a condemning finger at them.
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I wonder how many poor, wonderful people we exclude from Church activity because they cannot afford clothes that conform to our expensive and exclusive dress code. It breaks my heart to even think about that question.
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hawkgrrl,
Great work! I think your post does a great job of showing why something that is probably quite trivial either way from a spiritual perspective feels so emotional for many people.
Do you have to dress a certain way to feel the Spirit? No.
Is getting odd looks if you don’t dress the normal way a major act of oppression? Also no.
But because our attitudes toward the prevailing code of dress in our area may be lined up with larger cultural rifts, people may assume that if I don’t wear a tie (which I don’t), that I also don’t take the value of sanctity seriously (which I do, but which I’ll have to show them another way).
At the same time, if someone recommends to me that I start wearing a tie (which has happened a few times, though not often), I may treat that as a signal he/she doesn’t really value liberty the way I do.
So yeah: it’s a tie. Who cares? And yet, in our cultural context, a simple choice invokes a broad cultural tug-of-war over competing values. And people do and should care about values.
Cool, insightful post.
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I think you’ve created a straw man, Hawk.
In his talk on white shirts for Aaronic PH holders, Elder Holland specifically said he did NOT want to create a uniform. Further, as quoted above, the handbook also makes clear that white shirts are recommended but not required. (That fence builders require them is another matter, I suppose, and your six factors may well apply to them.)
No facial hair? The only restriction I’m aware of is for full time missionaries (or church employees) and those who serve in the temple. I was asked to shave my beard to serve in the temple in Taipei, which I willingly did. But now that I don’t work in the temple, I have my beard back. (I had a beard as a bishop, as well, in two different stakes.)
My stake president loves to wear non-white shirts when he is not presiding (eg, on General Conference weekend). His executive secretary wears a non-white shirt many weeks. Our EQ president also wears non-white shirts nearly every week.
We teach our daughters to dress modestly for themselves and their own relationship with their father-in-heaven, not for the young men in their lives. (They may hear the other in their YW lesson, I suppose.) That said, a number of our (I assume) un-endowed sisters (including some newer members) attend in sleeveless tops. A number of men in our ward do not wear ties.
Small sample size to be sure. But I guess it makes me glad I live where I do.
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Paul,
Don’t forget the universities. No beards allowed! Also, I haven’t known a bishop that allows a young man to administer the sacrament without a white shirt and tie. So it may be recommended but it is carried out to the effect that it mines as well be required.
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Jon, meet Paul.
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Cool, that’s one then. We’ll have to see if we can find some more.
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As bad as the bishop I had as a teen, I give him props for letting my brother pass the sacrament with his bleached-then-dyed hot pink hair. The SP (who as since been promoted to Area Authority) however threw a fit when he passed by for a visit.
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Paul,
this is no straw man. The fact is that the code of dress for priesthood holders is de facto taken as applicable to all males. Thereby, the fetishisation of white for ordinances means all males must wear white shirts at all times, as you never know when you need to perform a priesthood ordinance. I have been barred from passing the sacrament so many times for my shirt colour that Holland’s words ring empty of what it is really like in the many wards I have attended.
Last week in fact, my brother was told off for wearing a bow-tie for sacrament. Despite the fact that he was the smartest looking, wearing a three piece suit, freshly ironed shirt, his tie choice was remarked on and complained about. The fact is that dress is regarded as the expression of our commitment to God, and we have a prescribed way in which this commitment can be articulated.
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Jon, the YM in my ward administer the sacrament regardless of what they’re wearing. My favorite: choir outfits from two different schools. One was black trousers, red satin shirt, black necktie. RED SATIN, y’all! The other was black pants, black shirt, cream-colored satin vest and tie. Snazzy! The latter YM blessed, the former passed.
DS regularly participates in his striped shirt – he doesn’t have a white one anymore because he gave it to another YM who wanted one but didn’t have a way to get one.
Our bishop is awesome – he cares more about the kids themselves than he does about wardrobe.
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Jake, I’m astonished. We had a stake president’s counselor who wore a bow tie nearly every stake conference. (And this year I finally got my first bow tie for father’s day and I’ve worn it to church a few times.) And our former temple president now works regularly in our temple and he wears a bow tie when he is officiating (and sealing).
As for white shirts and ordinances, I just gave a blessing half an hour ago — blue shirt; no tie. (Hope it works.)
That said, I do acknowledge that our fence builders are hard at work, and that saddens me.
#28 Newly: When I was bishop I had two sons in the multi-colored hair stage (red and blue seemed most popular, though it changed from week to week. They were typically teachers during this period, so I didn’t have to rule on whether they could bless or pass, though they did prepare. One sister complained to one of my counselors, and he said, “It’s ok with the bishop.”
When one son went to do baptisms with his blue hair, the only concern raised by the baptism coordinator there was that the dye not come off in the water.
That was a decade ago. I suspect it would be tougher for them to get away with that now that EFY, etc, have adopted far stricter dress & grooming standards.
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What we wear in church may not be the most important thing, but it can communicate a lot about us. Hawkgrrrl’s analysis shows that what we wear communicates the arrangement of our moral code, and often whether we are conservative or liberal.
Sometimes, a liberal who goes to church sans tie, or a feminist in pants, is making as much of a self-righteous statement about their moral code, as the drones in uniform. Why would a woman wear pants? To sit in judgement over those that do? Or because it expresses something authentic and beautiful about her comfort level and open-mindedness?
My personal belief is that we should see expanded potential for our wardrobe to communicate messages we want to send to the world about our beliefs, values and culture. For example, what does it say if someone wears a business suit and white shirt, but it is ill-fitting, mismatched, and slovenly put together? In England, the priesthood look sharp! Most of them are dressed to standard LDS code, but in Paul Smith suits with wide neck collars, and power ties, an impeccable ensemble! (Unfortunately, the women don’t look nearly as good. But for the men, the high fashion culture in the department stores makes it a no brainer.)
I think men should wear a white shirt, but not because it symbolizes purity. White is the best and most practical color to put together a stylish ensemble that brings the various colors of the suit, tie, vest, belt, pocket square, and shoes. This is much more difficult with a blue shirt. With white shirts, your options are endless! You are the temple of God! Dress like you are the San Diego Temple, (if that’s how you feel, otherwise Provo is OK too.)
I don’t think liberals should kick against the pricks or complain about the LDS dress code. Rather, they should react to it in a non-confrontational way. It exists, and it has it’s reasons for existing. Rules are made to be broken, so break them. But break them for the right reasons. Not to sit in judgement, but as a true expression of one’s nature.
I like to dress up “fancy” for church because I am vain, and also because I take church seriously. If I’m going to give a talk, I’m going to prepare well for it, and make it as entertaining and inspirational as possible. If I conduct the hymns, I do so with as much gusto as possible. That is my nature. What is your nature? Whatever it is, let your wardrobe be an honest reflection of that nature.
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I think the dress codes are arbitrary and wholly dependent on the cultural mores of the current leadership. I am also disappointed that in a church which is hemoraghing members and on its absolute best Sunday here in SE PA we max out at 30% attendance total (with generous Enron style counting to get to 30%) we are finding ways to exclude people or make them feel less welcome.
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Nate, I think I love you. I am free to embrace my inner vanity with as much scarf and bling as I want! Wahoo!
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Nate, I get my white shirts at Costco — cheaper than most alternatives … But I liked your comment.
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I find it interesting, as Paul mentioned, that dress codes have become stricter. I used to work as an EFY counselor. At one dance I was called over to find two of the girls kneeling on the ground (in the dance room, not even off to the side) and the BC (counselor over counselors) told me that they needed to go back and change. To this day I regret not speaking up and expressing my outrage at the inappropriateness of the situation.
As it was, the group I had that week had been extremely ecletic. (and incidently, probably my favorite group of girls) They hadn’t really wanted ot be there but had an awesome week and had expressed to me how they felt the Spirit and wanted to get closer to God. All of those good feelings were wiped out by that 30 seconds of humiliation. I took them back to the dorms to change, where they preceded to cry for 30 minutes. They felt terrible. I felt terrible. I felt like it was my fault. It was my responsibility to make sure they were “dressed appropriately,” apparently I wasn’t strict enough.
I don’t care what people wear to church. Church is usually the one time all week I get “dressed up” and don’t really mind that much since it’s only for 3 hours (or 2 hours, or 1 hour, depending ;)). I do wish that I was confident enough to wear my cute, stylish, sleeveless dresses to church, but I’m not. (Not because I want to make a point, but because they are actually cute and make me feel cute) I wore a tank top over a swimming top to a water activity FHE (I’m in a singles ward) and was the only one. I missed the memo saying I was supposed to wear jeans/dress slacks and at least three layers of shirts. It was a water activity. After feeling like an outcast there, I’m not going through that at church. Not worth it. I have other cute sleeved clothing.
*Sorry I’m rambling, but this has been a sore issue lately.
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Nate – I went to England last summer and I don’t think I’ve ever seen so many well dressed men. Definitely made an impression. Though, I will say, what stood out the most was the variety of colors. Walking in London I was impressed by how well the men pulled off pinks, purples, blues, and whatever other color they wanted. It looked nice. At church people were extremely unfriendly, so I didn’t stay to notice what they were wearing there. (I went to the singles ward, I’m not saying all wards there are like that, just the one I went to.)
Stephen – I was just thrilled with the $14 dress I bought at Walmart. Love saving money! :)
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Natsy, the bottom dropped out of my midsection as I read your comment. I’m so sorry. I just hate that Church would make anyone feel like an outcast.
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What would be interesting to know is, where are these bishops more lax? Considering the OP and how it goes along political lines, I would think that these more lax “standards” would be outside of mainstream UT/AZ/ID.
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Personally, I find the de facto white shirt dress code for men quite useful. It provides a perfect way for me to signal my personal lack of conformity, rebelliousness, or whatever you want to call it. I own lots of white shirts for work, but I rarely wear one to church — on purpose.
I work near the great and spacious church office building and male church employees are required to wear white shirts every day there. Many of them go walking up City Creek Canyon during lunch and they get all sweaty because they cant even change out of the uniform, its gross. It would take some innovative leadership to change this cultural aspect of our church, and I have no faith that will happen in my lifetime. Especially as long as we are governed by octogenarians.
And for what its worth, the “white shirt for sacrament passing” rule has been strictly enforced by bishops and YM presidencies in most of the Utah wards I have lived in (7 in the last 20 years). They are either not aware of what the CHI says or they don’t care.
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Porter- your first paragraph made me giggle. My friend and I were talking about this very thing the other day. Of course we were applying it to sleeveless shirts. If they were allowed what would I have to rebel against? ;)
And on church office building dress codes, my friend works there and said that it was only last year they stopped requiring women to wear nylons!
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Porter, I love your style, man! :)
And the answer to your last speculation is that they don’t care. They are determined to take CHI ‘suggestions’ and ‘recommendations’ and turn them into absolute RULES of ‘holiness’. Welcome to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Pharisees.
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#32
There are lots of reasons why I’ve worn pants to church:
1. Haven’t shaved in a long time
2. Will be working in nursery
3. Too fat after pregnancy to fit into any of my skirts
4. Was feeling vulnerable/exposed and wanted to feel more secure
5. It’s too cold outside to wear a skirt
6. My toddler keeps pulling my skirts up or stepping on the back so it falls down
7. Monthly visitor
8. Can’t find a skirt in my horrendously too small closet with everything jammed in and my DH is yelling it’s time to leave and all the kids are already in the car so I grab the first bottoms I find so we won’t be late to church again
9. My only skirt that fit was dirty (i.e. covered in toddler goo)
10. I spilled or was assaulted by child with food/boogers/poop/pee and already had to change skirts twice and was out of clean skirts
All of the above actually have happened to me. And sometimes it just feels right. The only statement I’ve made with my pants is that I’m fat and a bad housekeeper.
Also regarding flipflops–EVERYONE wears sandals and flipflops to church where I live because it’s hot, hot, hot. Even the old ladies were sandals with their nylons :)
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For my above post I should have written every woman and not every one. I’ve yet to see a man over the age of 5 years wear sandals/flipflops to church.
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I associate proper dress with respect. In Church, it is respect to God and to the organization. I thin it is a good way to teach youth self-respect, which I think is what the military does right.
Having said that, any good thing taken to an extreme becomes a vice, not a virtue.
I like to keep things grounded in a middle way, avoiding the extremes of the modesty policy or the individual expression zealots.
It is about respect, not about uniforms. So when someone is wearing something different but they are respectful about it, I’m OK with things being different. “In your face” differences don’t make me feel comfortable.
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I have seen varying degrees of uniformity enforced or expressed on Sunday at church. In a ward in a poorer area I would very frequently dress down as the EQP because I had the most visible calling where you did not get any comments about it. Of course one of the bishopric would wear bolo ties so I probably could have pushed even further.
I have also noticed a bow tie fad going on in my current ward. Several deacons have been sporting them recently.
I think that the white shirt policy is most strictly enforced on the deacons who do not like to dress up and have never had reason to until they turn 12. Deacons and Beehives are the ones who get the dress and grooming lessons the most. By the time youth are 16, they should not need lessons, and most understand. If they are wearing inappropriate dress to church, it is very intentional.
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It’s taken me a while to come with an even semi-coherent response to this, because for the most part I simply despair. So far as I can tell, there is no scriptural basis for a ‘dress code’. The Lord doesn’t look on the outward appearance, but the heart. Preoccupation with apparel is frowned upon in scripture. My view is that we, as a church collectively, need to look long and hard and the lesson of the Zoramites.
As far as modesty goes, modesty is an attitude, not a style of dress. Perhaps not drawing attention to ourselves comes into that, but a uniform is very much drawing attention, IMO, and leads to an unhealthy obsession not only with what we might be wearing (whether in favour or no), as individuals, but also with what other people are wearing (and so to judging etc…)… That’s their business, not ours. It’s our job to be welcoming…
Some 10 years or so ago I was in a ward where a young family was baptised, 2 parents, 3 young children. The father was interviewed, found worthy and sustained as a priest. The problem – he ‘couldn’t’ be ordained until he had his hair cut!!! We never saw them again… Horrific.
As to EFY – very much a boot camp – I shudder at what their obsession teaches our youth, and I don’t want my kids any where near it. Natsy’s experience makes me shudder. I have similarly been told of a YM whose hairstyle was not extreme, couldn’t be described as long, but was still too long for them – so marched off to the barber to get it cut shorter! EFY is extreme…
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If the Church wanted to teach that what a person IS on the inside is more important than how they APPEAR on the outside, they could do it in 2 minutes in a single General Conference – simply have Elder Ucthdorf wear a lavender shirt (he would make it match and would make it look awesome).
Unfortunately, the Church is overly worried about appearances – not only with white shirts, but numbers of earrings, tattoos, multi-billion dollar malls, well-staffed PR newsrooms with multimillion dollar ad campaigns, etc.
But it would still be awesome to see – and he’d look good.
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And in my admittedly biased sample off my own experience – I think that people ignore this rule more and more as they get MORE spiritually mature and realize what is important in life.
I have a ward in SLC with very experienced life-long members. We have General Authorities, members of stake presidencies, bishoprics, etc. They are all extremely devoted with their time and money and effort. They have dedicated decades of their lives to the Church. And on any given Sunday, at least 1/3 of the men are NOT wearing a white shirt – and no one cares.
It’s not that they are “rebels”. It’s not that they are “protesting” against anything. It’s simply that they are spiritually mature enough to realize the absurdity of worrying about what color shirt someone is wearing.
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One week, I wore pants to church in my North Carolina ward. No one said anything. And then I thought “Are you kidding me? Why did I not do this sooner?”. That said, I think it is important to dress nicely for church–for most things, as appropriate to the task. I like trying to be stylish, even if my old yearbook photos prove I didn’t always succeed.
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Hedgehog – Yes EFY can be extreme and there is multiple stories of boys getting their hair cut just so they could come. It’s actually a fairly frequent occurence. It still upsets me, thinking about my experience with those girls. That was actually the last year I ever worked at EFY and it was partly because of that one thing.
I will say, as a youth I enjoyed EFY. I was very shy and it helped push me. I enjoyed being a counselor even more. It was crazy fun. With the way I feel now, though, I doubt I would enjoy it very much. Even that last year, I was too frustrated by things. As a COUNSELOR, I was asked to change once because they said my shirt was too low! It most definitely wasn’t and my chest is so small, there was nothing showing at all. Ridiculous.
Mike S. – Your comment about Elder Uchtdorf (who could definitely make a lavender shirt look good) reminded me how last conference Elder Perry specifically mentioned the tie he was wearing which, I believe was pink. I was watching conference with friends and before he even spoke several mentioned his tie. It was different enough to draw attention. Which, now that I think about it, is weird. How are we so wired to notice what color a tie is?
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The wiring to see dress is very deeply cultural. When I was a manager at a company with a very strongly enforced dress code policy, I would notice “dress code violations” walking through the mall or down the street. As an American traveling abroad, many times people have been able to identify that I am an American just by my clothes. Wearing plaid shorts and a button down shirt several years ago in Istanbul got me pegged as American, and in Asia I’ve been referred to as “bohemian” or “artistic” because I wear fuller skirts or an embroidered pattern in the fabric sometimes, not always stark geometric designs that are favoured here.
As a BYU student, once when I attended the temple in Provo, I had a quick reaction seeing a man with a beard and long hair sitting in the chapel waiting for a session. I immediately thought: “How did he get in here?” I didn’t agree on any level with the policy BYU has prohibiting beards and long hair, but I had become so accustomed to seeing only men with no facial hair and short haircuts that the incongruity of it caused me a double take. And THAT’S a fundamental problem.
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My mom told me a story once about general conference that must have occurred in the late 70′s maybe early 80′s. She told how all of the GA’s always wore only dark colored suits and dark colored ties. Blacks, navys, and browns. I suppose there was an unwritten rule about the color of suits and ties the GA’s should wear. Then, one general conference, one of the GA’s wore a red tie. Amist the sea of black, navy, and brown it stood out like a beacon in a lighthouse. Nothing was said about it but there it was and everyone saw it. The next general conference, there were several more red ties among the ranks of the GA’s. Today, of course, no one would pay any attention to a GA wearing a red tie. My mom didn’t remember who it was who wore that first red tie or who wore red ties the following general conference but she suspected that their wives were behind it. I’m certain that if one GA wore a lavender or blue shirt under his suit to general conference that several others would follow suite the following general conference. And I’m sure their wives would be behind it.
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hawkgrrrl (no.52) — the problem you describe as a fundamental problem is a personal problem, apparently common to mankind — it is not a church problem — and yet the whole purpose of this posting seems to me to create dissent or at least dissonance within the church. Or to be more charitable towards you, maybe just awareness — I’m thinking as I write. I really don’t know the why of the original posting, I just know my feelings when reading.
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I think there are more conservatives or “orthodox” who have a problem with a dress standard than this OP indicates. I absolutely detest white shirts and only wear them on occasion. On the other hand, I was in Priesthood meeting recently and looked around to see I was the only one not wearing a white shirt, and that isn’t usually the case. I felt rather awkward, but no one said anything to me or even looked at me funny. Those who complain about how others dress I think are a very vocal minority even among orthodox members.
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I don’t understand how this posting seems to create dissent or dissonance within the church. The church has no official dress code, just a cultural dress code, so wearing a colored shirt to church doesn’t demonstrate dissent against the church, just dissent against the dress culture within the church which is a good thing because our dress culture is so terrible.
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@DB,
See comment #10.
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Jon,
The Handbood of Instructions states that white shirts and ties are not required. So how is being in compliance with church policy a form of dissent?
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DB,
In the church, call it cultural if you want, suggestions are turned into commandments. Like girls not wearing more than one pair of earrings and guys none, etc. So, if a girl does wear 2 pair or more than she is dissenting from “church policy.” As we can see from EFY standards, as mentioned in previous comments, the suggestions might as well be rules. Try attending BYU with a beard. Numerous examples. It all may well be “cultural” but the effect of church policy suggestions might as well be rules instead, because that is how most leaders interpret them, and that is what matters most, how they are interpreted by those who have influence over others and enforce them. So, the Church could take these “suggestions” out of the handbooks and, consequently, truly make them suggestions instead of rules for most to follow.
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Jon, while I don’t have an opinion one way or another on BYU’s or EFY’s standards, they are church affiliated but not church organizations, and are free to establish separate standards. That their standards are representations of culture-bleed-through is incontrovertible, but they are free to codify the culture as they understand it and not necessarily reflect on the Church.
Not that it matters, but at home our standards are: don’t make yourself a focus sufficient to distract people from doing what they need to. If my boys were to wear a colored shirt to administer the sacrament, it causes others to stir about in their souls and ultimately, it’s not worth it for a shirt. That’s our way of handling it.
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Bonnie, your response to Jon is what I would have said, too. And I have used your logic regarding white shirts and the sacrament (almost word-for-word).
I occurs to me, however, that I have a double standard. My primary reason for encouraging my boys to wear white shirts for the sacrament is so they will not distract others from the ordinance. My reason for teaching my daughters modesty, however is just the opposite: it is to foster their relationship with their heavenly father and to develop respect for their own bodies and themselves (as opposed to protecting the uncontrollable minds of their male counterparts).
Hmmmm.
Jon, the no-beard policy at BYU is why I could not wear my beard and be a student or faculty member at BYU. But even with my beard, I still hold a temple recommend, still serve in my present calling, and have served (twice) as bishop.
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Bonnie, Paul,
The key here is that they are owned and are affiliated with the church and, ultimately, are a reflection on the church directly, even if we don’t like the reflection. I believe the scriptures use a phrase for this, oh, what is it, ah, that’s right, by their fruits ye shall know them. That is my argument. Weather I think it should be a reflection on the church is inconsequential, it is what it is. So, if the main body of the church didn’t want this reflection it could be easily avoided by taking it out of the handbook and by doing what Mike S said, have the general authorities loosen up some.
I may not use a tie anymore, but I still use a white shirt, I would probably look better without a tie with a different color shirt, but I don’t much care for dressing up as much as possible so I won’t ever get around to buying a colored shirt, but I least I don’t have the noose around my neck anymore.
As for teaching my children on what to wear. I think modesty is more cultural than anything else. Our fore bearers would have scoffed at us for letting each other walk around in pants that don’t go all the way down to the ankles and sleeves that don’t go down to the wrists, oh the scandal! So a shirt that only has this straps aren’t a big deal for me. I’ll let my daughters have more say in that matter, I will teach them about physical modesty but I will also realize that it is mostly cultural in nature. There is no principle behind the matter that I’m aware of.
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Jon,
You’ve gotten commandment, suggestion, standard, policy, and rule all confused and mixed up. You’ve also gotten the church, BYU, and EFY all confused and mixed up. What is a “church policy suggestion”? What do you mean by taking “suggestions” out of handbooks and turning them into suggestions? I don’t understand everything you’re writing because it’s all very muddled but allow me to explain a few things.
Commandments come from God and are found in the scriptures. Those don’t change very often. Paying tithing is an example of a commandment.
Church policy is established by the general authorities and is found in the handbooks of instruction and in published official church statements. These change from time to time. The instruction that white shirts are recommended but not required is an example of a policy.
Guidance is often given by general authorities on topics such as dress and grooming but is neither canonized as scripture nor established as church policy. Since it is neither scripture nor policy, it is not required and a church member who does follow that guidance will remain in good standing and temple worthy. The instruction for women to only wear a single pair of earrings is an example of this type of guidance.
Church affiliated institutions such as BYU and EFY have their own rules that apply only to those students or those attending and do not apply whatsoever to anyone else. When I was a student at BYU I could not have a beard but I’m perfectly free to have one now.
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DB,
I understand what you are saying. I’m just saying that because of church culture a church policy that is a recommendation might as well be a rule, or, effectively, a church policy by the way it is carried out. This is a reflection on the church, even if it isn’t meant to be. It doesn’t matter what is meant, it matters what happens. Church leaders can see what they have recommended in their policy guidelines and see the consequences of said actions. If they want people to realize that it truly is only a recommendation then, as Mike S said, let them wear different colored shirts in conference, otherwise, it is effectively church policy and not a recommendation for most saints.
Clear as mud?
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Paul – actually grapple with this too, and we talk about it. For instance, I want my laid-back boys to take more care for their appearance, and when I growl out, “every girl’s crazy ’bout a sharp-dressed man” they laugh, but they also glance in the mirror. On the flip side, I want them to be able to forget about what they’re wearing once they leave and really look OTHER people in the eyes and see them.
And the modesty for girls thing. I tell my daughter, who’s stretching up fast and 15, that having people see too much leg as she walks away distracts from what an amazing person she is, more as a reminder that her care and concern for her dress (which I don’t have to remind her about) could also embrace that.
And the whole shirts thing. I wish I could just paint shirts on everyone. I told the boys the other day that if they keep pushing me on not wearing shirts in the house then the girls and I aren’t going to. That scared them shirted for now. Good grief. Clothing makes me crazy. I can’t wait until we can all just wear robes. Only I get to wear scarves with mine.
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DB:
You may rightly classify Hinckley’s remarks about only wearing one earring per ear (for women) as “guidance” but a couple of Conferences ago Bednar gave a talk where he stated that being “quick to obey” was a spiritual gift, and used the example of a young woman being courted by a returned missionary who had her ears double-pierced. He waited for her to remove one of her piercings after the talk by Hinckley, and when a few weeks went by and she had not done so, rather than saying anything to her, he broke off their relationship because he did not want to marry someone who was NOT “quick to obey.”
That pretty effectively moves the guidance about multiple ear-piercings into the “policy” or even the “commandmant” catagory, because a member of the Twelve cited it as failure to obey the counsel of The Prophet.
Sure, this may not have been the clear intent of Bednar (or maybe it was) but it had that effect for many, many LDS.
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Thanks #66, that even goes beyond what I was saying. So it does show that “recommended” is effectively policy.
@Bonnie, #65,
Just for the record I find “modest” women more attractive than ones that show off their legs. Maybe because I was brought up LDS, I don’t know. Really, I don’t think clothing makes that much of a difference if a man is going to look at a woman and think she is beautiful or not. Maybe for some, maybe I’m just weird.
I don’t really think the modesty thing matters that much just because what was immodest in the past is modest by today’s standards, even considering just by Mormon standards.
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The following may seem like a digression (hopefully not a threadjack): I tried to stay out of the LDS blogosphere for a few weeks (my NM wife can’t figure why I torment myself). I wander on tonight before the Olympics telecast begins and I go from reading the account Mormon Heretic pubished earlier this week on the 1978 “revelation”–trying to sort out how that could be the mechanism that is supposed to make the LDS Church “the true and living church”—-then I wander into Hawk’s OP and this range of responses on the Worth of the White Shirt (I wore a light blue one at my only LDS Church visit this year). I stopped and had to wonder about the wrestling with the Lord over whether barriers should exist in His kingdom based on ethnicity as described by Kimball et al in Lengthining Our Stride and then switch to pondering about the few people still attending (the 3-hour block is excruciating) church and and they are obsessing over shirt color.
The comment attributed to Frederick G. Williams, shortly after his excommunication and being dropped from the 1st Presidency seems appropo—”It’s all madness”.
Tell me I’m wrong—
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ji – I’m certainly not trying to cause dissent nor even really awareness (is anyone not aware of this cultural aspect of Mormonism?). The point of the OP was to observe a connection between people’s moral foundations, the same foundations that form our political views, and how we feel about uniformity of dress.
It resonates for me too that those who love uniformity of dress are a vocal minority wihin conservatives, not all of them.
When places like BYU or EFY have stricter dress requirements, not looser, it fosters a belief in many that those are the higher law requirements, which is wrong thinking. It creates judgment of people who wear beards, men with long hair, unendowed people who don’t wear garment ready clothing, etc. These things ought not to be. On one hand you have E Bednar implying that a woman with 2 earrings is unworthy to marry a passive aggressive loser who obviously doesn’t love or respect her anyway. On the other hand, you have E Uchtdorf seeing judgmentalism and telling people to stop it.
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BYU is a world unto itself, eclipsed in madness only by Ricks.
I had a full 4-year academic scholarship there. Petty and pointless rules like this drove me crazy. After only going one year, I gave up my scholarship. Perhaps BYU is better off for people like me leaving, perhaps not, but it’s silly.
As far as my own kids, they can go where ever they want for college. But, we’ve been pretty open about what to expect going to a school like BYU where strange societal values are conflated with gospel principles. And I don’t know that any will go.
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No matter what Uchtdorf may have said, I remember another talk while Hinkley was alive that gave that same impression. Right after the speaker in conference finished, Hinkley got up and gently made a joke that was a rebuke toward codifying the earring number as requirement. Perhaps it was better that Uchtdorf gave the second talk about “stop it” than no talk like it at all. It certainly has been quoted and remembered far more than the one about the earring.
What ends up as “sticking as commandment” and what doesn’t is really hard to tell. Treating people with due respect is much harder to make a practice than lists of rules. The first has no lines and the second is easy to see since we can’t know the hearts of people (or sometimes our own). Rules sometimes become a necessary evil in a world where the only rules are there are no rules (people become rules unto themselves).
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HG: “When places like BYU or EFY have stricter dress requirements, not looser, it fosters a belief in many that those are the higher law requirements, which is wrong thinking.”
Sadly, you are right.
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My brother created an uproar when he blessed the sacrament during Sunday School wearing a turtleneck sweater. Another turtleneck appeared in that evening’s Sacrament Meeting.
My mission president in Brazil was from Brazil. He was not wealthy. He was not required to buy a new wardrobe. He met my group of missionaries at the airport wearing a tan shirt. He was a great mission president, not because of what he wore, but because of how he acted.
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This whole post just exemplifies the silliness within the church – modesty police, white shirts, two earrings, etc. WHY do we do this? I could give numerous examples – when my X was called into the Bishopric my RS Pres. told me I needed to make sure my children dressed better, I was told to wear pantyhose to the temple, I never wore pants to church even when my car heater didn’t work and it was below zero outside. ARGH!!! Now I simply don’t care because it doesn’t matter. We get so hung up on thinking that we should all be the same – cookie cutter Mormons. Mother and Father created us to be different, diversity is the norm in creation. Yes, I understand the need for order and appropriateness, but for heaven’s sake, sending home a little non-member girl from a pre-camp YW activity because her shorts were too short (recently happened)and calling her parents to pick her up = assinine!!! I never wear pantyhose and wear pants to church whenever I damn well please – why would wnyone want to see my middle aged legs anyway? AND I’m seriously thinking of getting my ears pierced a second time so I can wear two nice pair of earrings.
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HawhChick, good topic!
Quoth Erin Brokovich: (well, sorta) “as long as I have one arse instead of two, I’ll wear what I like.”
I wear a white shirt only if I’m going to speak, bear testimony, or officiate in some capacity. Else I pick a tasteful color and I don’t give a rat’s patootie what anyone else thinks.
I remember once being refused entry into the temple because I wore a black shirt with a white tie and a pinstriped suit. I happened to like the look, if I’d intended to portray a “hood” I’d have also sported a fedora and carried a “Chicago typewriter”. An appeal to the supervising counselor gained me admittance.
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EFY in Europe IS an official church program. It is organised by the Stakes, and the Area authorities are assigning and handling it.
But for some incomprehensible reason, the dresscode is kept intact, and the members are just … well, flabbergasted, angry, dismayed, sad … you pick.
It’s awful to see how this sick perversion of the gospel has reached our part of the world.
Youth are taught to judge each other according to appearance. Some can go and have a great time – may even gain a testimony. While others are excluded, and are staying home with hearts freshly stung by a church they thought were Christ’s.
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IMO, the youth shouldn’t be cajoled into an overly strict dress code. As long as the choice of attire isn’t patently offensive, who cares about shirt color or whether the skirt covers the knees? Modesty, yes, but we’ve developed an attitude of prudishness.
The fictional Douglas Niedermeyer would have enjoyed being a Stake YM President. Next time I’m asked to chaperone the Youth, it’s what I modeled last – blue jeans, flannel shirt, Stetson hat, and Tony’s…and my frat pledge pin. That ought to piss them off.
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Carl: “EFY in Europe IS an official church program.
… for some incomprehensible reason, the dresscode is kept intact, and the members are just … well, flabbergasted, angry, dismayed, sad … you pick.”
Oh yes. The boundary between church and CES here is far, far fuzzier than I am comfortable with, and CES seem to wield considerably more power than they should. I have repeat to myself ‘CES is not the church’ regularly.
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Some people of both sexes actually have foot-fetishes. Just bear that in mind ladies (and men ) who come to Church in beach footwear, or you ladies who wanna show off your newly-manacured paintjob on your tootsies by wearing footwear more suitable for a tango class than the House of the Lord. Just sayin’.
Someone has to. One more 500 pound invisible monkey captured! Geez….
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“Unwritten church codes?” Sounds like you want to subvert your personal views as church doctrine.
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