Blessed, Honored Pioneer: Weekend Poll

18 Responses to Blessed, Honored Pioneer: Weekend Poll

1. 

   Stephen M (Ethesis) on July 21, 2012 at 6:49 AM

   It is a heritage and flavor issue.

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2. 

   Bob on July 21, 2012 at 8:15 AM

   The Pioneer Day/Story needs to be toned down. As now shown, is mostly myth or folklore. It’s another area Mormons try to convey their Faith by using poor history. Yes, there was some hardship, but it’s not helpful to overstate it.

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3. 

   ji on July 21, 2012 at 8:44 AM

   People and societies need an excuse for a holiday, and reason for remembering. It is good to have holidays and remembrances.

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4. 

   NewlyHousewife on July 21, 2012 at 10:31 AM

   Since most record members live in Brazil, it’s ridiculous that the idea be shared outside of Utah. And even then it seems most members use it as a way to boast of their heritage, which in turn belittles those who don’t have that.

   I say scratch it all together just because it’s a stupid holiday.

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5. 

   prometheus on July 21, 2012 at 8:38 PM

   Wanna celebrate it as a state holiday in Utah? Sure! Forgive me if I am so blunt as to say that, never having observed it in Canada, I would strongly resist any suggestions to do so. But then, I dislike holidays in general. Don’t even get me started on rabbits and fat men wearing red……. :D

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6. 

   Nate on July 21, 2012 at 9:01 PM

   Perhaps we should use the term pioneer more broadly, also including non-Mormons who were pioneers in various endeavors which helped build the modern world.

   Every step we take in this free land was paid for by buckets of blood and sweat of those who came before us. We are not our own. We are products of generations of sacrifice. The Mormon pioneers thought of us as they crossed the plains, they built for the future. They died so that we might live in peace and prosperity. The least we can do is formally remember them once a year.

   Without the sacrifices of pioneers in all industries and endeavors, we would still be living in tribes, eating our meat raw, and killing each other. Peaceful civilization is the product of pioneers.

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7. 

   anon for now on July 22, 2012 at 7:44 AM

   Nate,
   How can you say that we have “peaceful civilization”? Worldwide, and here in the United States, it is far from peaceful.

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8. 

   MH on July 22, 2012 at 10:12 AM

   Anon,

   We live in the most peaceful time in world history. Here’s a few interesting quotes.

   STEVEN PINKER: Believe it or not—and I know most people do not—violence has been in decline over long stretches of time, and we may be living in the most peaceful time in our species’ existence. The decline of violence, to be sure, has not been steady; it has not brought violence down to zero (to put it mildly); and it is not guaranteed to continue. But I hope to convince you that it’s a persistent historical development, visible on scales from millennia to years, from the waging of wars and perpetration of genocides to the spanking of children and the treatment of animals.

   …

   The extraordinary 65-year stretch since the end of the Second World War has been called the “Long Peace”, and has perhaps the most striking statistics of all, zero. There were zero wars between the United States and the Soviet Union (the two superpowers of the era), contrary to every expert prediction. No nuclear weapon has been used in war since Nagasaki, again, confounding everyone’s expectations. There have been no wars between any subset of the great powers since the end of the Korean War in 1953. There have been zero wars between Western European countries. The extraordinary thing about this fact is how un-extraordinary it sounds. If I say I’m going to predict that in my lifetime France and Germany will not go to war, everyone will say, “Yeah, yeah; of course they won’t go to war.” But that is an extraordinary statement when you consider that before 1945, Western European countries initiated two new wars per year for more than 600 years. That number has now stood at zero for 65 years.

   See http://edge.org/conversation/mc2011-history-violence-pinker

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9. 

   CatherineWO on July 22, 2012 at 12:59 PM

   I grew up in Utah, of good pioneer stock, and Pioneer Day was always a big deal for my family. Two years ago, I took a month-long cross-country road trip by myself to visit Mormon history sites and areas where my ancestors lived. Every place I went, I heard Mormon missionaries say, “This is sacred ground because of the sacrifices of the Saints.” In the last few days of the trip, I stopped at the (non-LDS) visitors’ center at Chimney Rock in Nebraska. As I walked along one of the trails there and looked out at the prairie, the thought came to my mind that it’a ALL sacred ground. Under ever foot of earth we walk across are layers of bones and centuries of stories. Everywhere and in every time people have worked and played and sacrificed with and for their families and their communities. I think it is appropriate for us to honor those who went before us, those who had a direct influence on our lives and those who didn’t, placing value on all, therefore not trivializing some.

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10. 

    LovelyLauren on July 22, 2012 at 11:31 PM

    Honestly, I like having pioneers as our myth and folklore. It helps me feel like I have a religious heritage. (Pioneer descendant here.)

    Like this comment? 1

11. 

    Zara on July 23, 2012 at 12:15 AM

    The people who crossed the plains were certainly brave and faithful. They deserve honor. However, it seems a little odd to celebrate the holiday in Louisiana and Texas, where I’m from. No one I know, unless they are Utah transplants, has pioneer ancestry, and the church existed before the Utah migration.

    My biggest issue with Pioneer Day is that that Church likes to conveniently leave out the parts that are not as faith-promoting, such as how poor planning by leaders lead to so many unnecessary deaths in the Martin and Willie companies. The handcart plan was not a great one, and probably shouldn’t be glorified.

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12. 

    Bob on July 23, 2012 at 1:02 AM

    If I were a Pioneer, I would want to be honored by the true history being told of what I did, not by myth or folklore.

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13. 

    hawkgrrrl on July 23, 2012 at 4:17 AM

    Funny, I think those of us without pioneer ancestry are less excited about it. Go figure.

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14. 

    DB on July 23, 2012 at 6:51 AM

    Few members of the church outside of Utah, except for Utah transplants, celebrate Pioneer Day, care about Pioneer Day, or even know when it is. To the vast majority of church members worldwide, the pioneers are significant to their church’s history but not to their culture or heritage which is why few people outside of Utah care about Pioneer Day. Holidays are about culture and heritage, not about history.

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15. 

    Justin on July 23, 2012 at 2:49 PM

    Does the same apply to Thanksgiving? Must one have Puritan ancestors to celebrate that national holiday every November?

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16. 

    Bonnie on July 23, 2012 at 11:11 PM

    I don’t have Mormon pioneer heritage, but I have prairie pioneer heritage. My parents are converts to the Church, so when I was younger I felt like an outsider looking in on the whole handcart pioneer thing.

    When I was a young parent and began studying Church history with more energy, I had an experience while reading personal accounts of pioneers. I was transfixed by their commitment, sacrifice, and placement in time. I was humbled that everything that I enjoyed grew from their experience, that the gospel preached to a wild, young couple in Boulder, CO grew on a foundation laid by struggling saints before. Could the gospel have become what it is to me without them? It was a steadying thought.

    I’ve never felt on the outside since. I’m adopted. This is my family.

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17. 

    jim on July 30, 2012 at 12:16 PM

    I find it funny this argument is going on when youth all over the world are having summertime “handcart treks” and invariably experience difficulty yet rejoice in the experience afterwards. Complaints about the handcarts, especially the Willie and Martin companies, keep popping up in spite of the relatively low loss of life during the early blizzards which trapped these companies in hostile country. Imagine yourself wanting to “Go to Zion”, but being extremely poor, not being able to. The handcart treks made it possible for a few thousand saints to make it to Utah with relatively few problems.
    Handcart pioneers were a very small part of early Church migration but continues to maintain interest, including myself, who owns a homemade handcart that I love to pull the kids around in for any occasion, especially Pioneer Day picnics and parades.
    Only one of my several LDS ancestors pulled a handcart, so I barely “qualify” as a handcart descendant. But human-powered travel still has a big pull emotionally (I’m an addicted cyclist). Legends are great, as well as facts. Thank God for pioneers, whether LDS or gold seeking Frenchmen, or whatever.

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18. 

    MH on July 30, 2012 at 1:37 PM

    Jim, even though there was little loss of life early, they used green wood, so the handcarts were breaking down constantly. I reviewed 17 Miracles, the story of the Martin/Willie Handcart company a while back. It was certainly no picnic.

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